Eureka 3D

[samsc]

The VL-system looks like a copy of the old Eureka3D system.

so what is the difference between the maxedia and the Eureka 3d?

which are the features that one actually uses live-- as opposed to preprocessed?

[veldeman]

I'll try to explain a bit, but it's difficult to write down.

In fact both systems are more then a 'video server', since they do a lot of real-time effects with the used media.

The Eureka3D system had basically 2 layers, a background and a 3D object layer. The background and/or object could have a texture. BMP or Video file with basic color effects or sound effects. The camera view could be moved real-time in 3D and zoomed in etc...

The Maxedia goes much further. I looks like these guys in Belgium learned a lot from the previous system. Maybe that's why they changed the name of the product?
You have now 2 x 20 layers real-time in a A & B mixer.
On each layer you can modify the 3D camera, color, texture, effect, 3D object etc... and add real-time effects on them.
When you make something in the A or B mixer, you can then X-fade between them. Like you have 2 machines in one.
It's difficult to explain, you have to work with it before you realize how powerfull and smooth the images are.

The main difference in one sentence between Eureka3D and Maxedia:
Eureka3D was good for Clubs for effects, the Maxedia blows away even video pre-production companies.
I heard yesterday a story were a pre-production company in Germany lost it's deal for a TV-show this week.
Because the Maxedia did more artistic images then they did for a lot of money...

[samsc]

The main difference in one sentence between Eureka3D and Maxedia:
Eureka3D was good for Clubs for effects, the Maxedia blows away even video pre-production companies.

sounds quite good if it does what people need to do in the specific use they have for it.

[Spam Butterfly]

I'll try to explain a bit, but it's difficult to write down.

In fact both systems are more then a 'video server', since they do a lot of real-time effects with the used media.

The Eureka3D system had basically 2 layers, a background and a 3D object layer. The background and/or object could have a texture. BMP or Video file with basic color effects or sound effects. The camera view could be moved real-time in 3D and zoomed in etc...

The Maxedia goes much further. I looks like these guys in Belgium learned a lot from the previous system. Maybe that's why they changed the name of the product?
You have now 2 x 20 layers real-time in a A & B mixer.
On each layer you can modify the 3D camera, color, texture, effect, 3D object etc... and add real-time effects on them.
When you make something in the A or B mixer, you can then X-fade between them. Like you have 2 machines in one.
It's difficult to explain, you have to work with it before you realize how powerfull and smooth the images are.

The main difference in one sentence between Eureka3D and Maxedia:
Eureka3D was good for Clubs for effects, the Maxedia blows away even video pre-production companies.
I heard yesterday a story were a pre-production company in Germany lost it's deal for a TV-show this week.
Because the Maxedia did more artistic images then they did for a lot of money...

Firstly, it's not the media server that does the artistic images - it's the person who uses it and what they do with and the person who creates the content for it.

20 Layers - what does that mean? 20 Images? 20 movies? What?
The A/B Mix paradigm is difficult to map to a lighting console.

Essentially Maxedia works off a standard, although powerful PC, with a Radeon 9800 graphics card and a 7200 rpm hard disk. As we already know from Catalyst - there's a limit to how many SD movies you can actually run off a hard drive - particularly something as lowly as a 7200 rpm drive, and it's well below 20!

Hugh

[samsc]

20 Layers - what does that mean? 20 Images? 20 movies? What?
The A/B Mix paradigm is difficult to map to a lighting console.

Hugh

20 x 3d objects?
20 x images?

[veldeman]

Firstly, it's not the media server that does the artistic images - it's the person who uses it and what they do with and the person who creates the content for it.
Hugh

Right! But you need the tool to be able to do it.

20 Layers - what does that mean? 20 Images? 20 movies? What?
The A/B Mix paradigm is difficult to map to a lighting console.
Hugh

A layer can be:
- a video file (animated or not),
- or a BMP (animated or not),
- or a real-time effect like ribbons, real-time ocean, smoke etc...

Why would the the A/B system difficult to map?
It a 16-bit DMX channel and you make a transistion between two sets of layers.

Essentially Maxedia works off a standard, although powerful PC, with a Radeon 9800 graphics card and a 7200 rpm hard disk. As we already know from Catalyst - there's a limit to how many SD movies you can actually run off a hard drive - particularly something as lowly as a 7200 rpm drive, and it's well below 20!
Hugh

Of cource of you start running 20 video files from the S-ATA drives (150Mbyte/sec) then it starts dropping frames. Hey it's still a computer!
But since it does a lot of real-time stuff inside the graphic card they layers can go up without dropping the frame rates too low. I usually kept something like 60-70 fr/sec.

[samsc]

I usually kept something like 60-70 fr/sec.

SATA drives dont work anywhere near 150MB/s they are much much lower than that.
SATA drives dont work any faster than standard ATA drives - unless you use raptors.

You arent doing video at 70fr/s because 'video' playback is only 25fps.
No point in playing back any faster than that.
The refresh rate of the screen is not the playback rate.


Doing 3d objects is easy. Graphics cards can support millions of shaded triangles/second.
You should be able to do thousands of objects.
The problem is a control problem. And useability.
If you cant do anything useful - live - you are better off doing it in a different way.

[veldeman]

The problem is a control problem. And useability.
If you cant do anything useful - live - you are better off doing it in a different way.

And that's were the Maxedia succeeded in doing a good job...

[Spam Butterfly]

Right! But you need the tool to be able to do it.



A layer can be:
- a video file (animated or not),
- or a BMP (animated or not),
- or a real-time effect like ribbons, real-time ocean, smoke etc...

Why would the the A/B system difficult to map?
It a 16-bit DMX channel and you make a transistion between two sets of layers.

[Hugh]
But how does the media server know what is happening in State A and what is happening in State B
Because the media server needs to know two things:
Your Preview State (or Mix A) and your Program State (or Mix B), and then how you wish to transition from A to B.
State A or State B can change at any time - instantly - as the programmer adjusts their programming or overrides playback.

If you are controlling this from a lighting board, that's an awful lot of channels, if you are doing it properly.

In Catalyst to do this with say a movie and a mask on layers 1 & 2, and a movie and a mask on layers 3 & 4 then doing a cross dissolve between them takes 160 DMX channels....

Of cource of you start running 20 video files from the S-ATA drives (150Mbyte/sec) then it starts dropping frames. Hey it's still a computer!
But since it does a lot of real-time stuff inside the graphic card they layers can go up without dropping the frame rates too low. I usually kept something like 60-70 fr/sec.[/QUOTE]

?????

We're not talking about the refresh rate of the screen... Which could be 60Hz or 75 Hz

PAL movies run at 25 fps. NTSC movies run at 29.97 fps. Standard definition PAL movies running with the DV PAL codec - you're only ever going to get 4 movies running without using buffering techniques - and that's using a 10,000 rpm Ultra 320 SCSI drive. Thats a physical limit of what is possible with current computer hardware.

[Spam Butterfly]

Right! But you need the tool to be able to do it.

[Hugh]

A layer can be:
- a video file (animated or not),
- or a BMP (animated or not),
- or a real-time effect like ribbons, real-time ocean, smoke etc...

Why would the the A/B system difficult to map?
It a 16-bit DMX channel and you make a transistion between two sets of layers.

[Hugh]
But how does the media server know what is happening in State A and what is happening in State B
Surely state A or state B can change at any time - because you can queek a parameter at any time...
Because the media server needs to know two things:
Your Preview State (or Mix A) and your Program State (or Mix B), and then how you wish to transition from A to B.
State A or State B can change at any time - instantly - as the programmer adjusts their programming or overrides playback.

If you are controlling this from a lighting board, that's an awful lot of channels, if you are doing it properly.

In Catalyst to do this with say a movie and a mask on layers 1 & 2, and a movie and a mask on layers 3 & 4 then doing a cross dissolve between them takes 160 DMX channels....

Of cource of you start running 20 video files from the S-ATA drives (150Mbyte/sec) then it starts dropping frames. Hey it's still a computer!
But since it does a lot of real-time stuff inside the graphic card they layers can go up without dropping the frame rates too low. I usually kept something like 60-70 fr/sec.[/QUOTE]

?????

We're not talking about the refresh rate of the screen... Which could be 60Hz or 75 Hz

PAL movies run at 25 fps. NTSC movies run at 29.97 fps. Standard definition PAL movies running with the DV PAL codec - you're only ever going to get 4 movies running without using buffering techniques - and that's using a 10,000 rpm Ultra 320 SCSI drive. Thats a physical limit of what is possible with current computer hardware.