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Thread: SDI Record and Multi Mode playback

  1. #1

    SDI Record and Multi Mode playback

    A feature that would allow you to simultaneously record your SDI input, create an index of files based on your recordings and play them back at any speed up to 1 frame behind the record.

    This would be very attractive to sport operators giving them the ability to instantaneously playback sport plays in slow mo, or regularly. You couold also create some very cool time based effects such as Live slow mo.

    Example, you are playing your SDI layer that is being sent to you via the truck or cameras, the "record real time and broadcast "visual FX mode is on and outputing the recording lagging 1 or 2 frames behind, something negligable. At a certain point in the song you can take a cue that would slow the frame rate on the recordinng down to stop over the course of a specified time in your cue.

    At any rate, the ability to record and auto index files and recall them at will would open CAT to the sports world where they commonly use EVS.

    CC

  2. #2
    this isnt kindof close to what i set out to do.
    This really is a different industry that already has its own players providing such solutions.

  3. #3
    Christian.

    when one designs a system, one only designs it to do certain things.
    One makes design decisions from the very moment one starts.
    I cant design something to do everything possible ever with 'video'.

    I have to pick a small sub-set and try and do that well.

    I have watched people who try to do generalised do everything control systems, and they failed - often from the very beginning - because they made it far too complex for themselves.

    The truth of it is, that every design is only optimal for a small number of the possible uses of that equipment.

    Beyond those uses - users are better served by other more efficient solutions.

    And by products that are more closely focussed on the unique set of problems in that application space.

    A bicycle doesnt turn into a car if i add an engine....
    If i need a car - i really should buy a car.

    The problems that the designers of bicycles are trying to solve and not commensurate with those of the car.
    The expertise that a designer of bicycles learns is not compatible with that of a car designer.
    They exist in different worlds.

  4. #4
    Richard,

    You can't tell me that Catalyst hasn't evolved dramatically from what you originally set out to do. You should really give yourself more credit than that. I don't see Catalyst as a bicycle I see it as an ever evolving piece of revolutionary and usefull technology. I think this is part of the reason you have created the *feature requests* forum - to possibly consider implementing these requests and further evolve your software.

    Having said that, I would be hard pressed not to point out to you that nearly all TV video servers include functions such as SDI in and out, Sound, Travel mattes and fills with alpha channel support, record and replay with edits, and nearly all of them benefit from multiple 0striped high performance storage solutions such as Dual U 320 SCSI. San is another technology that they will make use of.

    Some Examples:
    Profile HD xp based - http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/products/ click on servers
    EVS video server ? www.evs.tv
    360systems Sub $10,000 Video server ? www.360systems.com
    DOREMI Labs MCS-HD server ? www.doremilabs.com
    Appela video server: Www.apella.tv
    Adtec Soloist 3 or edje video server: www.adtecinc.com
    DSR 2k Digital Disk recorder available in 3q 2004: www.gdc-tech.com

    I hasten to point out that there is a Sub $10,000 system by 360 systems that does nearly everything profile will do.

    I don't mean bad by this and hope you can see what I'm trying to point out to you without taking offence. What I'm trying to say is that you have developed such an amazing product that is so flexible it is scaring the people who use the afformentioned products, I'm curious why you don't close the deal and create an "everything possible ever with video" machine. You are already half way there. As ambitious as this may seem, I know the technology exists for it to be done and if anyone can do it, you can.

    In conclusion, I see Catalyst as an emerging butterfly in this world of caterpillar class video servers, not as a man propelled tuk tuk, bicycle, moped or anything less than a potential Mack truck.

    Sorry for the sentiment.
    Christian Choi

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by litemover
    Richard,
    Sorry for the sentiment.
    Christian Choi
    Highend is terrified of video. hence the dl1. they turn it into a 'light' which they think they can sell to their dealers.


    Im not doing a lighting product - but highend is.

    Their marketing angle is 'digital lighting'
    I try to add show control and pro-video functionality.
    What i do has nothing to do with 'digital lighting'

    SCSI? SDI?
    Highend thinks being able to move a video image around is 'cool'.

  6. #6
    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...on/lumpow.html

    A typical 100 watt incandescent bulb has a luminous flux of about 1700 lumens

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by samsc
    Highend is terrified of video. hence the dl1. they turn it into a 'light' which they think they can sell to their dealers.


    Im not doing a lighting product - but highend is.

    Their marketing angle is 'digital lighting'
    I try to add show control and pro-video functionality.
    What i do has nothing to do with 'digital lighting'

    SCSI? SDI?
    Highend thinks being able to move a video image around is 'cool'.
    Digital Lighting - Lighting's less offensive word for video. I hate this term because not only is it deceiving but it is a a bold faced lie. Sure light comes out of a projector or video wall but nonetheless, it is still video even if is attached to a yoke or head. This would be like Video people doing lighting at the same time and calling it Video Highlighting. How lame. They must think that the video world is stupid. When asked numerous times by tech directors, video operators, and the like "How is this lighting?" I always say "It's not, it's video." They always say, oh. If I were to answer them with the digital lighting answer, I would be insulting their intelligence. Video people are hardly stupid, especially about what is and isn't video.

    They need to get off the fence and realize what they have.

    I do think that all of the flexible features, even re-aspecting, are very cool as this would require a lot of extra equipment to do with any of the video based video servers. But it is still video.

    This must be quite frustrating, thanks for explaining it to me. It would make me want to start a new project.

    Christian
    Last edited by litemover; 10-05-2004 at 04:21 AM. Reason: My bad spelling

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by litemover
    Digital Lighting - Lighting's less offensive word for video. I hate this term because not only is it deceiving but it is a a bold faced lie. Sure light comes out of a projector or video wall but nonetheless, it is still video even if is attached to a yoke or head. This would be like Video people doing lighting at the same time and calling it Video Highlighting. How lame. They must think that the video world is stupid. When asked numerous times by tech directors, video operators, and the like "How is this lighting?" I always say "It's not, it's video." They always say, oh. If I were to answer them with the digital lighting answer, I would be insulting their intelligence. Video people are hardly stupid, especially about what is and isn't video.

    They need to get off the fence and realize what they have.

    I do think that all of the flexible features, even re-aspecting, are very cool as this would require a lot of extra equipment to do with any of the video based video servers. But it is still video.

    This must be quite frustrating, thanks for explaining it to me. It would make me want to start a new project.

    Christian
    its incredibly frustrating. And its not going to change.
    So i did start a new project.

    Its always been video.
    I work in the video industry with video equipment.
    I have been doing this kindof thing for more than 10 years.
    Video people just fall about laughing at the mention of gobos.
    There is no 'lighting' technology, jargon or terminology used in the interface or design of this software.


    But this is focussed on the lighting console as a control solution for live shows.
    Video people never really developed anything to control large numbers of devices- outside show control.

    The lighting operator gets to leverage his live skills - his skills in breaking things down visually and being visually aware - and use them to control more of the stage display elements.

    This is a role they are good at.

    Video people are often hidden backstage without an overview of the stage picture being created.
    This is because the creative role in video production has already been fulfilled once the content is on tape and has been approved.

    The lighting guy now gets to make the show presentation work even better.

    R

  9. #9
    Just got finished doing a show with 7 dl-1's, and three servers.

    For aerial effects, they are great, for anything else, they are not that great. Originally, they were supposed to be projecting some texture and effects onto a setpiece that had some fabric to be projected on. When we got to the site, the fabric was on 6 inches tall, when it as supposed to be 4 ft. So, we ended up hanging them in different places and trying to project some stuff. It was OK if I put all seven basically in one concentrated area, but other than that, you could barely see them.

    BTW, Richard, the 8-layer version is GREAT for preview. I ran two servers, with a third by the board emulating the two for my preview monitors. The only thing that would be nice, is if you could do mixes of every two layers. I.e. mix 1&2, 3&4, etc for each of the outputs. As it was, the only thing I could do was seperate outs, or 1,2,3,4 or 5,6,7,8 at once.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jasonrudolph
    Just got finished doing a show with 7 dl-1's, and three servers.

    For aerial effects, they are great, for anything else, they are not that great. Originally, they were supposed to be projecting some texture and effects onto a setpiece that had some fabric to be projected on. When we got to the site, the fabric was on 6 inches tall, when it as supposed to be 4 ft. So, we ended up hanging them in different places and trying to project some stuff. It was OK if I put all seven basically in one concentrated area, but other than that, you could barely see them.

    BTW, Richard, the 8-layer version is GREAT for preview. I ran two servers, with a third by the board emulating the two for my preview monitors. The only thing that would be nice, is if you could do mixes of every two layers. I.e. mix 1&2, 3&4, etc for each of the outputs. As it was, the only thing I could do was seperate outs, or 1,2,3,4 or 5,6,7,8 at once.
    yes dim.

    i have seen this kindof problem of lots of shows.
    you need short throws and no spill. same caveats with all projectors.

    Please add the mix 1&2 thing to feature requests.
    this works the way it should work in pixelmad. you can have any compbination you want - the gui is different.

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