Decklink Duo

[samsc]

This is very true.. if your cards arent being physically damaged from handling etc I would put money on this. You can even get smoked from bad building service.. had a show this year that had about a 6v difference in GROUND potential between 2 lighting services that where supposedly on same xformer, panel.. etc etc... got a nice buzz plugging in a soco just touching the chassis...but when just metering that service itself it was fine... there seems to be no end to bizzar bad bad things that can pop up in the world of show power.

the sdi signal is relatively insensitive to low frequency ac/dc noise - as its self clocked and is a transition based signal- so low frequency dc/ac offsets are easy to filter out with a high pass filter- - up to a point...

[samsc]

decklink duo is on indefinite hold as - as seems usual with decklink - they havent got the parts to build it yet -

this isnt the first time they announce products well before any realistic ship date.

[OliLights]

Thanks for everyones posts.
Something you all should know is that we always ensure the Video PPU and and the Catalyst servers are on the same supply, I am a qualified electrician and I am fully aware of Potential Difference created between 2 different power supplies and the damage it can cause.

I would like Active Silicone to be more proactive in getting to the bottom of this with us. They know that we have 5 servers with 2 cards in each.
For the record.... a rogue machine has to be ruled out as we have suffered failures on a number of the machines.

I agree that opto isolation would help the cause in insuring a voltage free ground, but I'm sure in this case we have other issues. XL video are looking into this, but of course they see this as protecting someone else's kit.
How do we explain the intermittent comings and goings of the card and driver recognition for example. How come the Decklink HD3 worked straight from the box with no change of mains powers supply, and therefor the same possible potential difference as suffered by the AS cards, are they more hardy to it?

Whatever the resolution from AS, there hardware must be as durable as that from Kona or Decklink, we all agree on this right? I know that there is some flakiness with drivers sometimes from both of these manufacturers....


Thanks again for everyones input.
Oli

[ajmaudio]

I look forward to hearing how this ends... please do keep us posted if you dont mind? Thanks and good luck!

[Mr_P]

I would like Active Silicone to be more proactive in getting to the bottom of this with us. They know that we have 5 servers with 2 cards in each.
For the record.... a rogue machine has to be ruled out as we have suffered failures on a number of the machines.
Oli

In defence of Active Silicon - they have been very proactive in working to try and find an exact cause to the damaged cards - with the limited information available and without having access to the 'actual' touring system.

I asked those involved for information when the first 5 cards were returned back in March (2010) and little was forthcoming.

Active Silicon have replaced all the cards returned from the tour, without question, whilst still trying fault-find a problem that may not, ultimately be their responsibility.

Others of us have also been proactive in finding possible solutions:
http://www.bal.co.uk/cgi-bin/cp-app....s_transformers

http://www.bal.co.uk/cgi-bin/cp-app....0&cat=&catstr=
http://www.bal.co.uk/cgi-bin/cp-app....0&cat=&catstr=
http://www.bal.co.uk/cgi-bin/cp-app....SSORIES:ACCGLE
http://www.bal.co.uk/cgi-bin/cp-app....SSORIES:ACCHEC

http://www.allenavionics.com/AVI_Trans/AVI_Trans.htm

http://www.oxygendct.com/acatalog/Digital_Widgets.html
http://www.oxygendct.com/acatalog/SD...Isolators.html

http://www.len.co.uk/
http://www.len.co.uk/products.php?category_id=2

http://www.miranda.com/FOE-171p
http://www.miranda.com/FOE-171p



As yet - I've not tested these...

I actually have one of these returned 'repaired' cards - and have still not managed to break it yet....

There are hundreds of identical cards in system around the world that work perfectly and do not experience any of the issues that have arisen on Muse.

I urge users to post their findings to see if similar issues have ever occured with other D20-PE4 cards...



Simon

[samsc]

you are touring flight cases full of equipment...

stuff comes undone-as it always done-

if the driver isnt seeing the card - it means you have an intermittent problem with the hardware- the hardest thing to ever trace.


it gets banged around- as it always has gone in rocknroll touring.
rocknroll touring is really harsh on equipment.
the power systems we use on shows are really harsh- all these cables and power surges from all the systems.
and in the ten years i have been doing it - its a miracle the macs stand up so well-

your cards have been reported to have failed in exactly the same way - this just doesnt happen by chance- electronic failure are random.

---

as a software developer im usually the first in line for the blame when something goes wrong - but when the issues are resolved - its almost never my problem.
But in the first instance its always my fault - and i accept total responsibility.

---

active silicon make hundreds of cards - decklink/aja - tens of thousands- its an entirely different game

at least active silicon answer email-

i have never ever had an email response from either aja or decklink on technical issues. ever.

i spent 5 days - 5 days - trying to get a decklink intensity card to work last month - and in the end i gave up-
My AJA kona LHi crashes my machine completely if left on all day- doesnt survive a basic soak test. thats without my software running -

so the grass isnt any greener. its best to have someone with to work through technical problems.

as we need stuff fixed fast in this business.

Thanks for everyones posts.
Something you all should know is that we always ensure the Video PPU and and the Catalyst servers are on the same supply, I am a qualified electrician and I am fully aware of Potential Difference created between 2 different power supplies and the damage it can cause.

I would like Active Silicone to be more proactive in getting to the bottom of this with us. They know that we have 5 servers with 2 cards in each.
For the record.... a rogue machine has to be ruled out as we have suffered failures on a number of the machines.

I agree that opto isolation would help the cause in insuring a voltage free ground, but I'm sure in this case we have other issues. XL video are looking into this, but of course they see this as protecting someone else's kit.
How do we explain the intermittent comings and goings of the card and driver recognition for example. How come the Decklink HD3 worked straight from the box with no change of mains powers supply, and therefor the same possible potential difference as suffered by the AS cards, are they more hardy to it?

Whatever the resolution from AS, there hardware must be as durable as that from Kona or Decklink, we all agree on this right? I know that there is some flakiness with drivers sometimes from both of these manufacturers....


Thanks again for everyones input.
Oli

[samsc]

It worked very infrequently and when it did, all it took to cause failure was tiny movement of one of the BNC cables going into the Mac.

this indicates a connector or cable problem-

suggest someone tries to repeat this with either the macs or a set of cables.

[Mr_P]

Thanks for everyones posts.
Something you all should know is that we always ensure the Video PPU and and the Catalyst servers are on the same supply,

According to Erlwin - they are not!...

I am a qualified electrician and I am fully aware of Potential Difference created between 2 different power supplies and the damage it can cause.

Have you measured the voltages between earth and the SDI ground?

I would like Active Silicone to be more proactive in getting to the bottom of this with us.

We have been awaiting more detailed information from the tour to ascertain what is causing this issuse. Until very recently, information has been lacking

They know that we have 5 servers with 2 cards in each.
For the record.... a rogue machine has to be ruled out as we have suffered failures on a number of the machines.

I refer to my previous comment:
Hundreds of these cards are operating sucessfully in servers around the world - it seems strange that the cards on your show are having a unique problem - does this not point to a problem with your setup?

I agree that opto isolation would help the cause in insuring a voltage free ground, but I'm sure in this case we have other issues. XL video are looking into this, but of course they see this as protecting someone else's kit.

HD-SDI Isolating transpformers cost £165 each
4way HD-SDI 3G opto isolators are more expensive at £2498 a pair...
(if anyone knows of any cheaper - do get in touch!!!)

How do we explain the intermittent comings and goings of the card and driver recognition for example. How come the Decklink HD3 worked straight from the box with no change of mains powers supply, and therefor the same possible potential difference as suffered by the AS cards, are they more hardy to it?

To top this off we suffered for the final time when after installing and jigging cards into new slots, somehow it worked up until the point we moved the BNC connections on the MAC

When your solution to fixing the problem includes 'wiggling' the card in the PCI express slot - and 'wiggling' the bnc cables connected to it - im not surprised it failed!

Whatever the resolution from AS, there hardware must be as durable as that from Kona or Decklink, we all agree on this right? I know that there is some flakiness with drivers sometimes from both of these manufacturers....

Have you actually tried either of these cards in your setup to qualify this statement?

You may get frustrated that things dont work as expected - these things are highly complicated. Don't blame that manufacturers until you have ruled out all of your own potential problems...

Simon

[samsc]

i started off at the bottom at vari*lite ( as did a lot of people still around ) - fixing broken electronics many years ago - and it broke a lot - probably something like 10% failure rate per show. ( possibly more )

On every show you had to test every piece of equipment together as a system before it went out.

its a tough business - such a harsh environment for electronics - very electrically and physically unstable-
with users are under enormous pressure when things break- equipment on and off trucks every day -

and harsh on software developers too- who arent used to things being in continuous use for days at a time - with one unrepeatable and unmeasurable glitch a day -

its a bit of a miracle it works well enough most of the time-


in most cases the physical failures were electrical - cables - power supplies - connectors - mains - static issues -
electronics blows up really easily if you touch it when there is static electricity around -
and vari*lite built their flight cases with static generating material -
I remember the entire first batch of VL4's blew up when they arrived in london because they hadnt been tested on real 240v power.

then there are the design mistakes and the end user errors - dropping things - vari*lite consoles used to blow up when dropped- the relay which switched between 110 and 240 shorted in a failure mode.
Lamp power supplies had an unsafe failure mode which blew up all the transistors.

equipment that gets connected and disconnected all the time that is constantly shipped around - it breaks.
even the best designed stuff. even the worst designed stuff.

---

in my experience - with equipment failure like this - you always look to the electrical and cable conditions first of all.
and you check and double check what people say - because in show confusion accurate information is not easy to come by.

[Leif]

I built two identical machines from scratch--all parts brand new--in April. Each machine is equipped with two Phoenix cards (4 inputs each box), SSD for content, and Radeon 4870 output card.

The macs as a whole have had zero problems. Playback has been stable, despite operating in very hot and humid conditions.

The Phoenix cards, on the other hand, have been a letdown. Capture has seized/frozen on numerous occasions, often requiring a reboot to reacquire a signal; at one recent show we shut a machine down for an hour before the our set to give it time to cool down but one of the cards never came back, and I had to set Catalyst to copy one of the other inputs.

At first we thought this was a heat issue across the entire system but one card in particular seems to seize a lot more than the others. This is troubling to me because the two servers on this show are built identically. It seems to me that if it was a heat issue, I would be having similar failures on both machines. As it is, I suspect a defective card.

Considering the price of the cards, and being only 3-4 months old, this is a disappointment. To their credit, AS seem keen to help and are sending a new card out this week. But I remain nervous, especially after reading Oli's posts...