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Thread: Need a Little Help

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winter Garden, FL USA
    Posts
    77
    Thanks Simon. I am going to have to remove the existing Stagebar programming anyways, I am running them in a different channel mode this go around.

    The reason I want to use them from both the Console and from the Catalyst is because I have a few effects that I have in mind that I can knock out real quick with the effects engine.

    Thanks to everyone for the help, I think I have everything configured how I need it. Now I just have to get the rig in front of me and go at it. Unfortunately that doesnt happen for another 3 weeks.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by MattMills View Post
    I am adding to an existing show that already has the Stage Bar programmed. Not much though, just solid colors, so it wouldnt be a loss if I had to re do it. The Node 6 has an option per port to configure the output to be LTP Merge, I assumed this would work.
    you need an htp merge- to control from 2 different devices-
    you will have to check whether your box will do an HTP merge-

    artnet is just a ethernet protocol its doesnt do any merging - it depends on the interface box

    LTP merging wont work - as both devices are going to be sending information at the same time-

  3. #13
    it seems to indicate here elc node 6 does htp merge:

    http://www.elclighting.com/web/index...d=122&Itemid=4

    Features:
    Remote programming and monitoring
    DMX input options like Normal and Backup
    DMX output options like:
    - Normal
    - Merging in HTP / LTP or custom
    - Priority merging
    - Merging with softpatch
    not used or tested myself

    Quote Originally Posted by MattMills View Post
    Thanks Simon. I am going to have to remove the existing Stagebar programming anyways, I am running them in a different channel mode this go around.

    The reason I want to use them from both the Console and from the Catalyst is because I have a few effects that I have in mind that I can knock out real quick with the effects engine.

    Thanks to everyone for the help, I think I have everything configured how I need it. Now I just have to get the rig in front of me and go at it. Unfortunately that doesnt happen for another 3 weeks.

  4. #14
    I'm using ELC node8 and you can do HTP merge or LTP merge in each output, same as Luminex.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    UK - Milton Keynes
    Posts
    807
    by definition - an HTP merge wont work for a colour device!... an LTP merge would be more usefull on a colour device.
    However, as previously stated - a switch function between 2 ports would be of more use as there are 2 controllers connected.

    Merging usually requires hardware - ie: an Artnet box (node)
    However, it is also possible with some software:
    http://www.artisticlicence.com/index..._id=&order_id=

    Art-Net II Protocol Release V1.4 Document Revision 1.4ak 9/11/09 (extract)
    Data Merging:
    The Art-Net protocol allows multiple nodes or servers to transmit ArtDmx data to the same universe.
    A node can detect this situation by comparing the IP addresses of received ArtDmx packets. If ArtDmx packets addressed to the same Universe are received from different IP addresses, a potential conflict exists.

    Merge is implemented in either LTP or HTP mode as specified by the ArtAddress packet.

    When a node provides multiple DMX512 inputs, it is the responsibility of the Node to handle merging of data. This is because the Node will have only one IP address. If this were not handled at the Node, ArtDmx packets with identical IP addresses and identical universe numbers, but conflicting level data would be transmitted to the network.
    Simon Pugsley

    SNP Productions Ltd. (UK)
    Lighting & Video Control Solutions
    Catalyst|Sales|Hire|Training|Support
    Catalyst Dealer UK Europe & Worldwide...

    Office: +44 (0)1908 410129
    Mobile: +44 (0)7958 390034
    simon@snp-productions.co.uk
    www.snp-productions.co.uk

  6. #16
    why you say " by definition HTP merge doesnt work on colour device!"?

    I think you have not got something right in your understanding of LTP and HTP?

    this is the scenario-
    two consoles or devices transmitting continuous information- at the same time-
    you know how LTP works? ( last takes precedence ... )

    For example-
    On console A - transmit channel 1 as say 50 -
    On console B - transite channel 1 as 25 -

    with LTP data flips between 25 and 50- continuously- this is not very useful - particularily on a colour channel - your colour flips constantly between 2 values- breaking scrollers - or flickering LED products-

    With HTP ( highest takes precedence ) output is 50 - data doesnt flip- it stays constant-

    How you work with HTP is when you have 2 consoles outputting at the same time - you set the output channels to 0 ( fader down ) when you want the other device to have precedence.

    The 0 zero value works as an implicit channel by channel switch between the two data streams-
    When you set one controller to 0 values - whatever channels - the other devices channels with any greater value than zero has the output-
    you do not have to do any additional switching of devices or configuration-


    ?



    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_P View Post
    by definition - an HTP merge wont work for a colour device!... an LTP merge would be more usefull on a colour device.
    However, as previously stated - a switch function between 2 ports would be of more use as there are 2 controllers connected. .

  7. #17
    i think you misunderstand the concept of the ArtAddress packet within the artnet spec-

    Merging is not implemented in either LTP or HTP mode as specified by the ArtAddress packet.

    this is a configuration packet not an implementation -

    this is a packet that tells a device to do configure something - if it wants to - not an implementation-
    it is a configuration specifically for an artistic licence box - usually because they lack any kindof user interface - buttons or web interface -

    typically these packets are only used by artistic licence - as other manufacturers have different functionality- that does not fit into 'the artnet spec' as artistic licence sees it-

    the confusing come about because artistic licence manufactures its own products to do these things- and it is talking about configuring its own products-
    and in particular you should never assume that any other device other than an artistic licence device will actually be reconfigured by this or any other packet-

    there is no requirement for an ELC product to respond to - or be reconfigured by the ArtAddress packet- it is not an implementation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_P View Post
    Merging usually requires hardware - ie: an Artnet box (node)
    However, it is also possible with some software:
    http://www.artisticlicence.com/index..._id=&order_id=

    Art-Net II Protocol Release V1.4 Document Revision 1.4ak 9/11/09 (extract)
    Data Merging:
    The Art-Net protocol allows multiple nodes or servers to transmit ArtDmx data to the same universe.
    A node can detect this situation by comparing the IP addresses of received ArtDmx packets. If ArtDmx packets addressed to the same Universe are received from different IP addresses, a potential conflict exists.

    Merge is implemented in either LTP or HTP mode as specified by the ArtAddress packet.

    When a node provides multiple DMX512 inputs, it is the responsibility of the Node to handle merging of data. This is because the Node will have only one IP address. If this were not handled at the Node, ArtDmx packets with identical IP addresses and identical universe numbers, but conflicting level data would be transmitted to the network.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    UK - Milton Keynes
    Posts
    807
    Quote Originally Posted by samsc View Post
    I think you have not got something right in your understanding of LTP and HTP?
    I fully understand the difference... a switching method would be better and safer. HTP method relies on the values staying at zero on the other desk... not necessarily guaranteed on an existing show which is what Matt is trying to do... However - if the values do stay at zero - then its a valid method.
    Simon Pugsley

    SNP Productions Ltd. (UK)
    Lighting & Video Control Solutions
    Catalyst|Sales|Hire|Training|Support
    Catalyst Dealer UK Europe & Worldwide...

    Office: +44 (0)1908 410129
    Mobile: +44 (0)7958 390034
    simon@snp-productions.co.uk
    www.snp-productions.co.uk

  9. #19
    what reasons you say then that
    by definition - an HTP merge wont work for a colour device!... an LTP merge would be more usefull on a colour device
    ?

    when actually the opposite true- htp merge works - ltp merge doesnt.

    it is easy to ensure that values stay at zero- you pull the cue fader down-

    LTP would not work under any circumstances - as the outputs fight each other-

    it is not feasible in most circumstance to change the configuration of devices - and i would suggest that changing device configuration in any live show - is much less safe than htp priority-
    you skip a song for example which might have a config cue - and you have no idea what state the device is in?

    htp priority is stateless and easily reversible - changing device configuration is hidden and not easily observed.

    and htp priority works on each and every single channel on every universe - and is totally controlled by the lighting console on every single channel- on every universe-

    you can only switch entire universes in bulk?
    unless there is a super complex per channel priority system somewhere that i dont know about-


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_P View Post
    I fully understand the difference... a switching method would be better and safer. HTP method relies on the values staying at zero on the other desk... not necessarily guaranteed on an existing show which is what Matt is trying to do... However - if the values do stay at zero - then its a valid method.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winter Garden, FL USA
    Posts
    77
    Well, once I get the rig all set up and playing nice, ill try both ways and post the results.

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