Timing and playback speeds of frame-rates

[samsc]

if movie was shot at 23.98 - and post-produced at that frame rate -

you really cant do any frame rate conversions - they wont work-

changing the frame rate will just duplicate frames - or do something horrible to the content like frame blend.
Frame blending will alter the content in a way which might be completely unacceptable to client-

Personally I would ask your content folks to send you a quicktime uncompressed at 30fps version of the file and then encode into AIC and hold onto the uncompressed version. That will solve 99% of problems like this, also it is always good to get content sent as uncompressed unless your content providers are house trained and encode correctly in AIC.

If you cannot get the file uncompressed, then go the route Todd suggests, not forgetting to De-interlace the file before encoding to uncompressed.

BTW catalyst media playback is built upon quicktime, only the capture card side of things bypasses quicktime. But Catalyst is not good bedfellows with MPEG based content because it not frame absolute, Richard could possibly elaborate this.

Phil

Philip G Haynes
Live Visual Design and Direction

[ryanww]

Should the uncompressed version be 8 or 10 bit uncompressed?

[prodigal2]

I tend to use 10bit. A DV cam only captures 8 bit FYI.
Also before encoding into AIC, deinterlace, or you can experience some weird field issues once encoded into AIC.

either should be fine, but 10 bit tends to handle grey scale better and depth of field.

Phil

Philip G Haynes
Live Visual Design and Direction

[ryanww]

So looks like I am stuck with the file that was given to me (.mp4). I have tried bringing it into FCP, applying a de-interlace filter on it, and exporting it as uncompressed 10 bit 30fps. It really messed the video up and did not look good. Are you talking about deinterlacing the uncompressed file before exporting it as a AIC?

Playing back the file that I converted to AIC from the original within catalyst, it plays well on my system if I select lock to screen 1 divide - 59.98fps. I guess once I get it on the target system with the projectors I should just find what settings works best..

[samsc]

So looks like I am stuck with the file that was given to me (.mp4). I have tried bringing it into FCP, applying a de-interlace filter on it, and exporting it as uncompressed 10 bit 30fps. It really messed the video up and did not look good. Are you talking about deinterlacing the uncompressed file before exporting it as a AIC?

Playing back the file that I converted to AIC from the original within catalyst, it plays well on my system if I select lock to screen 1 divide - 59.98fps. I guess once I get it on the target system with the projectors I should just find what settings works best..

this is the best way - if your system can handle it use 59.98 fps frame rate- ( screen 1/2 div 1 in framerate menu )

dont do any frame rate conversions in post - dont convert it to 30fps leave it at 23.98

convert file to aic leave the frame rate the same

for audio playback the rules are different from non-audio

[samsc]

Catalyst is Frame based - not quicktime playrate based-


playback frame rates in catalyst are not related to the frame rate in the quicktime video files - unless you use audio playback-

what catalyst does is playback every frame at the frame rate set by the framerate menu-

in a movie 30 seconds long with a frame rate set by the movie makers of 23.98- there will be 719 frames- ( 23.98 * 30 )

catalyst will play each and every one of these frames at the speed set in the frame rate menu-

this is because vga and dvi screens work at 60Hz and/or 75Hz or similar frequencies- and this has nothing to do with anything in video world- 29.97 23.98 24 fps are all meaningless- they have to be fitted into the dvi/vga refresh rates/

in computer video world things have to be played back at the frequency of the output device-

I have a project coming up where I will have a advertisement video (with audio) that will be playing and switching back and forth with a logo file. Reason I want to use catalyst is so I can control it with the light board and everything is kept very simple. This will be in HD as well.

I haven't gotten their content yet, so I have just been downloading HD movies I can find online. I am struggling to figure out the correlation on how Catalyst does the frame playback compared to just quicktime.

For example. This one particular file is encoded at 23.98 FPS. If I play it back with the cat set to 30FPS, it is a little bit glitchy. If I select 23.98, it is very jumpy. Although I would think it would be perfect. If I set it to 50FPS or higher, it is perfectly smooth. I have even tried taking the movie file, converted the timing to be 30fps non drop using final cut pro and with cat set to 30FPS it was slow.

I am just having a hard time understanding how the frame rate comes into play with playing back these media files that aren't just generic patterns and videos.

Thanks,
Ryan

[samsc]

this is an extremely tricky area - even more so with audio

try un-modified 23.98 file - dont do any frame rate conversions

use playaudio - then use a higher playback frame rate in catalyst frame rate menu- if the monitor is 60Hz - try to use 60Hz playback in catalyst - but only some graphics cards will work at all well at this rate

catalyst uses movie frame rate only in play audio modes - but audio takes total priority

I have a project coming up where I will have a advertisement video (with audio) that will be playing and switching back and forth with a logo file. Reason I want to use catalyst is so I can control it with the light board and everything is kept very simple. This will be in HD as well.

I haven't gotten their content yet, so I have just been downloading HD movies I can find online. I am struggling to figure out the correlation on how Catalyst does the frame playback compared to just quicktime.

For example. This one particular file is encoded at 23.98 FPS. If I play it back with the cat set to 30FPS, it is a little bit glitchy. If I select 23.98, it is very jumpy. Although I would think it would be perfect. If I set it to 50FPS or higher, it is perfectly smooth. I have even tried taking the movie file, converted the timing to be 30fps non drop using final cut pro and with cat set to 30FPS it was slow.

I am just having a hard time understanding how the frame rate comes into play with playing back these media files that aren't just generic patterns and videos.

Thanks,
Ryan

[ryanww]

Thanks Richard for the excellent explanation. I will try this on the show machine hopefully in the next couple days. It plays wonderfully on my Mac Pro system I personally have.

[samsc]

Thanks Richard for the excellent explanation. I will try this on the show machine hopefully in the next couple days. It plays wonderfully on my Mac Pro system I personally have.

its really a very tricky area-

its even more tricky when people try to do audio and non-audio playback at the same time! because they need different ways of working...

if you have a single movie with audio- just increase the framerate to screen 1 div 1-
this technique will work with audio movies - but it doesnt work with video only movies....

[samsc]

Thanks Richard for the excellent explanation. I will try this on the show machine hopefully in the next couple days. It plays wonderfully on my Mac Pro system I personally have.

it works on newer mac pros.

older g5's its definitely a lot harder -

i had a problem on a byu show with hidef and audio before xmas - and it looked like the graphics card couldnt do it - it just couldnt cope with the data and frame rate