Converting to HD-SDI

[samsc]

noone seems to have asked the fundamental questions with video input ....

so i need to ask them-

what camera source ntsc or PAL?

what refresh rate and frame rate are you running the screens at?

what frame rate is catalyst set to playback at?

I should be more clear.. sorry.. its not the delay.. I find it very acceptable for what we do. What I am experiencing is dropped frames resulting in jerkiness etc. It will happen for a few seconds out of every minute and then clear up. For instance.. If I am using 2 lfg cards, of the eight inputs at any one time there is likely one that will briefly have some frame loss... it will clear up and then reappear elsewhere within a short time. This happens with or without any other playback load on the machine. The GPU usage is minimal also... it seems to be a buffer issue similar to the problems with the later generation od Black Magic hd extreme cards if that helps describe it any.

[samsc]

there is no difference between drivers ( mine or AS )-

the only difference is that the active silicon dmg installs a quicktime driver for use with other quicktime applications-

the quicktime driver does not have good low latency performance- and should not be used- though it does work in catalyst.

those system commands you detailed - uninstall the quicktime driver-

Remove the driver you installed from the Active Silicon website (follow instructions above) - re-boot

Install the driver from the link on my website - this driver is written by Richard for Catalyst and differs from the 'standard' driver available from Active Silicon

Let me know if this solves the issue

Simon

[samsc]

the problem as described is not a driver problem -

but a frame rate thing- i await more information

1. depends on the frame rate of the video input -
2. the frame rate of the display -
3. and the playback rate set in catalyst application-

you see if the person is using NTSC which may or may not be close to 29.97 Hz - and their screen is 1024x768 which is 60.02Hz- it doesn't evenly divide- into the screen refresh - and every minute or so - something has to give ...


the video input as described is working correctly-

can you confirm the specification of your MacPro and its hardware version. (Model Identifier). Can you create a system profilie and post it here. (see catalyst menu)

I've sucessfully run 3x LFG4 cards with 12 inputs connected to cameras with no problems - that was on a 2007 3G 4core MacPro

What other hardware do you have installed? Are you running remote desktop or anything similar at the same time as Catalyst? What HardDrives and Graphics cards do you have?

Can you confirm the version of LFG4 driver you are using - and MacOS version.

Try un-installing the driver (see below) and both cards.
Reset the system PRAM (apple+option+P+R) at re-boot
(check your settings afterwards)
Shutdown - and install only 1 card and install the driver below (if Leopard)
test with a blank - new catalyst show - to see what happens.
connect video inputs 1 by 1
if all ok - shutdown - install the 2nd card - and repeat tests

Correct driver for Leopard is: 'LFG Direct Driver 2.0.Leopard.dmg'
LFG Driver:
http://homepage.mac.com/simonpugsley....0.Leopard.dmg

from Active Silicon Documentation:
Uninstalling the Video Driver (VDIG)
You will need to know the root/Administrator password to perform a driver uninstall.
1. Open up a terminal window from a 'Finder' window:
Run '/Applications/Utilities/Terminal'.
2. Type the following commands exactly as shown:
sudo rm -rf /Library/QuickTime/lfgvdigx.component
sudo rm -rf /System/Library/Extensions/cdapci.kext
sudo rm -rf "/Library/Documentation/Active Silicon"
exit
3. Then close the terminal window, shutdown and restart the computer.


Do get back to me with the information requested - and let me know if you are still having issues.

Regards

Simon

[samsc]

what refresh rate are your screens?
and your video input?
and catalyst frame rate?


there arent any driver issues with phoenix - there is no quicktime driver-
any issues with phoenix installation need to be referred directly to active silicon- there arent any software/driver issues-

Simon's method is best. I have done this method dozens of times.

Its time consuming but it's the best and only way to resolve issues with capture cards. (Also the same method for the Phoenix Cards with the exception of the driver file.)

I have still seen this happen regardless of any troubleshooting. I am dealing with this very issue in fact in a nightclub. Fortunately I am the only one who notices but it still drives me nuts.

My speculation is electrical noise and subtle phasing problems which cause the digitizer to perceive a drop. I can't confirm this but nothing else makes much sense.

[ajmaudio]

Thanks for your input Richard... glad to see you getting in on this one.

the source is NTSC
catalyst is set at 30fps
Refresh rate is 60.02 I think (1024x768) for the output to led controllers

Based your comments it would be better to lock the playback to some division of the refresh rate I assume?

[samsc]

source ntsc. so somewhere in the region of 29.97Hz ( though not necessarily accurate )

is this a pro camera or an cheap camera setup?

which LED product is/was it?

dmx or dvi?

suggest as a potential first step you try setting frame rate to screen div 2 and see whether it gets better or worse

---

its related to the problem of how to play back the 23.98 movie we had before-
its the same kindof deal-

NTSC video camera signals dont fit neatly into dvi/vga/LED controller refresh rates.

Thanks for your input Richard... glad to see you getting in on this one.

the source is NTSC
catalyst is set at 30fps
Refresh rate is 60.02 I think (1024x768) for the output to led controllers

Based your comments it would be better to lock the playback to some division of the refresh rate I assume?

[jasonrudolph]

I know I'm jumping in a little late here, but I can also recommend the TVone boxes. One thing to note however, is that at least on the 2355, while it can genlock, you need to genlock based on your output format (i.e. tri level for HD, Blackburst for SD) While on an imagepro, you can use black to genlock and HD signal. Not a huge deal, but one you need to know if you are using them. There are actually a few devices out on the market that let you take a blackburst or trilevel signal in, and use that as a reference out for the other type of sync. that are fairly cheap.

[ajmaudio]

Thanks for the continued support Richard.
The cameras are all professional and are going through GV DAs.
The LED is Barco SLIGHT with LED PRO controllers running DVI from Cat to Led Pro

I'll try what you suggest as soon as I can. Could be a bit before I get to try this. Wish this was not the case. It seems like this would fix it. Any other thoughts on this subject?

[ajmaudio]

on a side note... if you wanted to take the time to explain precisely how that few seconds of jittery video happens I would love to hear it from you Richard. The concept is simple enough however I am curious as to what happens with the buffers or whatever it is at that precise time. Understanding is power

[samsc]

on a side note... if you wanted to take the time to explain precisely how that few seconds of jittery video happens I would love to hear it from you Richard. The concept is simple enough however I am curious as to what happens with the buffers or whatever it is at that precise time. Understanding is power

first of all we need to do some experiments by changing some settings-
there are many different possibilities - sometimes unexpected -

in this situation there isnt usually a technically correct answer -
we have to try to find the best visual solution by changing graphics card settings and catalyst playback rates-

I made these settings available because these situations arise a lot.
and we have to find the best solutions-

i have a lot of situations where the timecode is 25Hz- but the screens only run at 60Hz- for example with element labs controllers used in europe-

sometime the client has to sync to external source without timecode available and the external source runs a little fast or a little slow-

sometimes the frame rates - screen outputs and timecode are all mixed up and cannot be changed...

sometimes projectors really dont like working at 75Hz- only work at 60Hz - but show is at 25FPS... eurovision 2004

i had a show last year with martin lc panels- and they took really strange input rates- i cant remember exactly- but completely non-standard - and the show was run from a laptop- and laptops have refresh rates you cannot change....
and on and on...

----

a very quick technical metaphor is this-

you have 2 conveyor belts running side by side- they have fixed bucket positions- they are not continuous belts- one can transport 899 cabbages per minute- and the other runs slightly faster at 900 cabbages per minute-
how do you get the cabbages from one conveyor belt to the other?
what happens if you cannot exactly or precisely measure the positions of the cabbages?
what happens if the rate of the conveyors changes slightly all the time?
or the positon has some mechanical hysteresis in it?