SCSI Drive

Printable View

03-10-2007, 06:37 PM
markjlights

SCSI Drive

So I have a Catalyst G5 Quad box that I bought from High End. The SCSI drive is no good in it and I am thinking that instead of replacing the internal drive (I think heat killed it) I should just get an external SCSI Raid Array. Anybody out there have any opinions about this plan and/or have any reccomendations for SCSI for G5's internal or external? Thanks. Mark
03-10-2007, 08:35 PM
NevBull

Hi Mark

an single fast internal SCSI drive will be the best option - a 15k RPM SCSI drive is standard in the Catalyst PRO servers we build in the UK. The Fujitsu MAX3147NP seems to have one of the fastest seek times at the moment.

There have been lots of posts here about the pros and cons of various RAID configurations - I believe (and Richard will correct me on this) that the only viable external RAID system tested so far is the Apple Xserve Raid unning over fibre channel.

This does all, of course, depend on what you are aiming to do with your Catalyst server and the content thereon.

Nev.
Digital Services Manager
PI Digital
04-10-2007, 09:02 PM
markjlights

Thanks for the info. What control card would you have installed in a G5 quad? I think I will need to replace that as well...
04-10-2007, 09:34 PM
samsc

Quote:

Originally Posted by markjlights

Thanks for the info. What control card would you have installed in a G5 quad? I think I will need to replace that as well...

control card?
06-11-2007, 02:36 PM
bright

I think he means the SCSI Controller Card. I would be interested in that question as well. Which Controller Cards have been reliable and fast? Are there any alternatives to the ATTO SCSI, which a lot of people seem to be using.

Any help would be apreciated.

Thomas
06-11-2007, 05:46 PM
SourceChild

Hey Mark,

Forget the SCSI. Instead take the old disk and controller out and replace them with a new Mtron SSD. If you search the threads here you will see where we have been talking about using Mtron disks.

These things are very fast but you are going to have to spend about $2,400 (including shipping) to get a 64Gb disk.

Read these threads:

http://chaldee1.gotadsl.co.uk/~richa...ighlight=Mtron

http://chaldee1.gotadsl.co.uk/~richa...ighlight=Mtron

http://chaldee1.gotadsl.co.uk/~richa...ighlight=Mtron
07-11-2007, 01:03 AM
Mr_P

I agree - SSD is about the same price as a 147G SCSI disk - 'Most' show content would fit on a 64G SSD

However, for those who use SCSI, to answer the question, the ATTO SCSI Cards are the only SCSI option for the G5's.

There are a number of 10K and 15K SCSI drives available - Cheetah 10K.7 - 147GB ULTRA 320 SCSI drive, in tests in a G5, performed better than a Cheeta 15K. Try Nevs recommendation of the Fujitsu MAX3147NP if you dont go with an SSD
07-11-2007, 07:57 AM
NevBull

PID will very shortly be distributing Mtron's range of SSD drives - contact me for pricing.

Nev.
07-11-2007, 09:37 AM
samsc

Quote:

Originally Posted by NevBull

Hi Mark
There have been lots of posts here about the pros and cons of various RAID configurations - I believe (and Richard will correct me on this) that the only viable external RAID system tested so far is the Apple Xserve Raid unning over fibre channel.
Nev.
Digital Services Manager
PI Digital

scsi raids are fine but dont work any better than a single disc - unless you want to do uncompressed video
so no point doing a raid.

xserve raid works better because it has a gigantic disc buffer and clever algorithms that overcome individual disc limitations.
07-11-2007, 09:38 AM
samsc

Quote:

Originally Posted by markjlights

Thanks for the info. What control card would you have installed in a G5 quad? I think I will need to replace that as well...

you shouldnt have to replace the controller card. unless it doesnt work either
07-11-2007, 09:45 AM
samsc

not quite MAX 3147 is Â£170 now.
64GB SSD around Â£900.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_P

I agree - SSD is about the same price as a 147G SCSI disk - 'Most' show content would fit on a 64G SSD

However, for those who use SCSI, to answer the question, the ATTO SCSI Cards are the only SCSI option for the G5's.

There are a number of 10K and 15K SCSI drives available - Cheetah 10K.7 - 147GB ULTRA 320 SCSI drive, in tests in a G5, performed better than a Cheeta 15K.

its not meaningful to say things like 'performed better' without a lot more information-
as performance varies between drives with different codecs and compression. some drives are better at somethings, some are better at others.

none of the cheetah drives i tested ever worked great.
there is a great deal of difference between different drives and drive manufacturers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_P

Try Nevs recommendation of the Fujitsu MAX3147NP if you dont go with an SSD
07-11-2007, 09:48 AM
samsc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_P

I agree - SSD is about the same price as a 147G SCSI disk - 'Most' show content would fit on a 64G SSD

simon- you were raiding drives up a few months ago on mac pro's-

did you unraid them?

or are you still doing this?
08-11-2007, 05:08 AM
SourceChild

There is nothing wrong with having more than one 64Gb SSD disks in your Mac Pro or G5. Obviously the G5 will only take one additional but you can always remove the CD ROM. In the Mac Pro however, you can put three SSD disks in addition to your system disk if you wanted to.

Then point to folders on each of the disk to get a larger capacity than 64Gb.
08-11-2007, 12:49 PM
Mr_P

Richard,
In response to your comments -

I use
Mac Pros - 2x 500G SATA raided (WD5000YS)
G5 - single SCSI (not raided) (Cheetah 10K.7 147GB ULTRA 320)

These configuration seem to work fine for the majority of the work encountered

re 'performs better' comment
this was based on Hughs testing results between various SCSI drives both 10K & 15K.
I agree - there are a lot of factors to be considered - of what was available in the price range and size, the recommendation after tests was the drive quoted.

Nevs Fujitsu MAX3147NP was not compared

It was not a comparrison between SSD and SATA
09-11-2007, 01:18 PM
samsc

Quote:

Originally Posted by SourceChild

There is nothing wrong with having more than one 64Gb SSD disks in your Mac Pro or G5. Obviously the G5 will only take one additional but you can always remove the CD ROM. Then point to folders on each of the disk to get a larger capacity than 64Gb

ssd is sata - you have only 2 sata ports in g5 unless you buy an external sata card
09-11-2007, 01:22 PM
samsc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_P

Richard,
In response to your comments -

I use
Mac Pros - 2x 500G SATA raided (WD5000YS)
G5 - single SCSI (not raided) (Cheetah 10K.7 147GB ULTRA 320)

These configuration seem to work fine for the majority of the work encountered

re 'performs better' comment
this was based on Hughs testing results between various SCSI drives both 10K & 15K.
I agree - there are a lot of factors to be considered - of what was available in the price range and size, the recommendation after tests was the drive quoted.

Nevs Fujitsu MAX3147NP was not compared

It was not a comparrison between SSD and SATA

internal raiding of drives does not work better than single drive - and can work worse - as you know. internal raids not recommended - they do not improve performance.
there is a also a great deal of difference between the individual performance of single sata drives- they do not all work the same.

cheetah 10k7 scsi never recommended as scsi drive.

there are indeed many things to consider - the most important being - the type of content you are using, and what codec.
the performance of systems varies hugely depending on this.
09-11-2007, 06:08 PM
SourceChild

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsc

ssd is sata - you have only 2 sata ports in g5 unless you buy an external sata card

Richard is right. To be more clear. If you remove the CD rom drive you will have to use the IDE SSD in a G5.
29-01-2008, 08:56 PM
Dan Valcich

Richard,

What scsi drive do you recommend?

Dan Valcich
29-01-2008, 09:31 PM
SourceChild

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Valcich

What scsi drive do you recommend?

Hey Dan,

This is the best overall answer to your question.

Don't use a SCSI drive.

There are close to a dozen threads on this board referring to SSD disks, specifically the Mtron SSD disk.

Six months ago they were expensive and a 32Gb was about $3k US.
Last month they went down and a 64Gb was about $2k US.
This month a 128Gb is about $3k and the price is still dropping.

Don't use a SCSI. The SSD (Solid State Disk) is a device that has a SATA interface but is made of the same memory used in RAM. This means it is much faster.

The price of a SCSI card and SCSI disk is comparable to an SSD.
However, a SCSI can only run 1/3 as well in performance. With the SSD you can run 14 layers with no loss using the DV codec or 7 layers of HD using the Apple Intermediate Codec.

If you're in the US, there's a company called dvnation (about an hour away from me in San Antonio in fact) which is very easy to deal with. The guy who runs is is cool and I speak with him on the phone all the time. He's small but always has tons of disks in stock.