External MSC MIDI Triggering

I just left a show where the entire show on Catalyst was triggered with Medialon using MSC. (Props to you six guys who wrote all 800 cues. It was hell to touch up.)

Anyway, the system devices were M-Audio Midisport Uno's feeding into the Catalysts. I had a tremendous time receiving MIDI capture data from the device.

I verified MIDI out from the Medialon PCs but the Catalyst machines just didn't receive it. The devices were installed correctly and showed up in the Audio Midi utility. They also showed up in the Catalyst MSC window.

I was using m207 since this was the version written for the show. I also tried versions up to m222. Changing the Catalyst version had no help.

FYI, this is after reinstalling MIDI device drivers for the Unos.

The final solution came when I mixed and matched show files from several different revs of the show. Eventually I was able to have the show work correctly on several different MIDI devices. (Same trick I used on the same show in fact to overcome a bug with the LFGs).

Currently, devices are all M-Audio Midisport models Uno, 2x2, and 4x4.

At Richard's suggestion, I tried all kinds of different devices until the problem was gone. Also worked diligently with the drivers making sure the correct versions were installed.


I am very interested in followup from anyone else who has ever dealt with this issue. What were your solutions and suggestions for resolutions?

apple made significant behind the scenes changes between leopard and tiger and there were many reports of broken midi equipment on music related sites.

these are old threads from apple support forums:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....readID=1200879
someone even hacked a third party solution:
http://namedfork.net/midisportloader/

third party drivers - for any equipment can and do break or not function with changes of hardware or software- operating system or hardware platform - or hardware configuration-

midi seems to be a favorite for manufacturers for dreadful drivers and wierd configuration tools.

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there is a capture window in catalyst which shows all incoming midi data-

if it doesnt appear here -there is an error in midi configuration or midi drivers.


changing software version is not going to help- as its not catalyst-

midi show control has its own set of complexity-
the use of a device ID and device type - and if they arent both set to the same as the sending device - nothing happens-
and sometimes devices dont tell the truth - or dont give you access to both parameters- and assume a default- they dont tell you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SourceChild

I just left a show where the entire show on Catalyst was triggered with Medialon using MSC. (Props to you six guys who wrote all 800 cues. It was hell to touch up.)

Anyway, the system devices were M-Audio Midisport Uno's feeding into the Catalysts. I had a tremendous time receiving MIDI capture data from the device.

I verified MIDI out from the Medialon PCs but the Catalyst machines just didn't receive it. The devices were installed correctly and showed up in the Audio Midi utility. They also showed up in the Catalyst MSC window.

I was using m207 since this was the version written for the show. I also tried versions up to m222. Changing the Catalyst version had no help.

FYI, this is after reinstalling MIDI device drivers for the Unos.

The final solution came when I mixed and matched show files from several different revs of the show. Eventually I was able to have the show work correctly on several different MIDI devices. (Same trick I used on the same show in fact to overcome a bug with the LFGs).

Currently, devices are all M-Audio Midisport models Uno, 2x2, and 4x4.

At Richard's suggestion, I tried all kinds of different devices until the problem was gone. Also worked diligently with the drivers making sure the correct versions were installed.


I am very interested in followup from anyone else who has ever dealt with this issue. What were your solutions and suggestions for resolutions?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SourceChild

Currently, devices are all M-Audio Midisport models Uno, 2x2, and 4x4.

At Richard's suggestion, I tried all kinds of different devices until the problem was gone. Also worked diligently with the drivers making sure the correct versions were installed.

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what about non-maudio devices?

i suggested to you - you needed different manufacturers - so that they dont share the same drivers.

Some of the other devices I tried are:

Motu Micro Lite 5x5
Motu Fastlane
Emu XMIDI 2x2

They all worked when the driver was installed correctly.

I won't discount the possibility that part of the error was on the side of the PC running Medialon. However, I uninstalled, wiped the registry, and reinstalled the PC drivers. When I could see consistent MIDI data from a random MIDI device, I was relatively satisfied that the PC was not the issue.


I think bottom line is that USB to MIDI through a wire then MIDI to USB is just nuts anyway. Things are working now and reliable across many different MIDI devices so at least my issue is closed.

I wouldn't be surprised if people have this same problem in the future.

Hello,

I'm reading this old thread from 2008. I need to control Catalyst from a Ligthing Console using MIDI.

Will the current M-AUDIO UNO version work?

Thanks!

I've always found the M Audio midi interfaces more reliable from a driver point of view than anything else on the market - particularly the Midisport 2x2. I have owned a couple of Midisport Unos over the years and these work ok, although they are not as robust as the 2x2. A lot of midi interfaces these days don't require drivers...

Medialon's MSC implementation is pretty straightforwards and works nicely with Catalyst.

You need to have same device ID and format ID for MSC to work nicely. GO is the only command worth using. Cue list number and cue number - don't bother with Cue Path.

Hugh

looks like this device has been around a long time since 2001- based on maudio driver support page-

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=...erie_ID=4#tabs


-

never personally used one-

We have used the M-Audio uno on hundreds of shows, and never has a single issue, they do look a little delicate, and we do reterminate them to F connectors. Some of our are over 4 years old and still going strong.

Try to Avoid the M Audio Unos if you can. I found many problems with them when I was rushed into a show. The 2x2s seem to be the best simple solution I've found and are quite robust.

I've since found that Medialon is a nice way to control triggering.

If you're going to be using a lighting controller to trigger catalyst then MIDI is the wrong way to go. Use a single DMX channel and the Catalyst Preset Trigger.

In the inBuild web server it will show you how the DMX profile is setup. This is truely a simpler way to run catalyst presets.

Thanks to all for answers. I really apreciate it.

Normally we always use DMX for control/go on shows. But this time seems there is any problem with the ligthing console and Catalys Libraries. (normally We use Wholehogs, but also Grand M and Martin).

Midi is only for send the "go" commands when show is running.

Thanks for all!

I have to disagree with you there, we own nearly 50 of the UNOs and use them constantly on shows that involve standard midi (note on/off, program change) MSC and MTC and have never had a problem that didn't eventually transpire to be caused by something else. In fact we have run MSC command over 100m of XLR using nothing but passive jumpers in the past, and even with that weak a signal they have been solid.

Exactly what problems have you experienced, are you sure there wasn't something else at blame?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SourceChild

Try to Avoid the M Audio Unos if you can. I found many problems with them when I was rushed into a show. The 2x2s seem to be the best simple solution I've found and are quite robust.

I've since found that Medialon is a nice way to control triggering.

If you're going to be using a lighting controller to trigger catalyst then MIDI is the wrong way to go. Use a single DMX channel and the Catalyst Preset Trigger.

In the inBuild web server it will show you how the DMX profile is setup. This is truely a simpler way to run catalyst presets.

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Also DMX isn't always the way to go, in a situation where you have a lot of cues that coincide with LX cues it can often be simpler to hook into the MSC cues that a lot of desks send automatically. This negates the need for the LX programmer to have to add cues to trigger video when he is up to his eye balls in plotting the actual LX cues. He can then just add dummy cues on the odd occasion that there isn't an existing cue for you to piggy back on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gazzer82

Exactly what problems have you experienced, are you sure there wasn't something else at blame?

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On one occasion on three machines, the UNOs would not connect. Drivers were removed and reinstalled (from a terminal level). Still didn't connect. In both cases, I swapped the UNOs for 2x2s and they worked fine.

On three additional occasions using different machines, after reboot the UNOs did not come online and had to have drivers reinstalled.

In every case, switching to a 2x2 or something better has worked. I will admit though that I haven't used an UNO since Fall 2009. Maybe the drivers are fixed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gazzer82

Also DMX isn't always the way to go, in a situation where you have a lot of cues that coincide with LX cues it can often be simpler to hook into the MSC cues that a lot of desks send automatically. This negates the need for the LX programmer to have to add cues to trigger video when he is up to his eye balls in plotting the actual LX cues. He can then just add dummy cues on the odd occasion that there isn't an existing cue for you to piggy back on.

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Since I prefer the Hog 3, MA2, or Vector when programming, I am not always considering other desks. However, I still can't understand how you'd save time when using a CAT preset trigger is literally 1 DMX value on one DMX channel and their are profiles built on all three of those desks to quick select it.

I've honestly only found that the best use for MIDI into Catalyst is in using a Medialon or as a TimeCode Source.

I have to agree with Gareth - in the busy production period of a theatre show - the LX programmer usually wants nothing to do with video and having to create cues is a major pain for them. So the easiest solution is not to bug them, use the MSC outputs and to ask for as fewer 'video' cues to be created as possible.

I have also just put a couple of systems together for bands touring their own video system to festivals - a two mac mini server system in a nice little 4u rack. Self contained and easy to use. We have used MIDI over the network, as included as standard in Mac OS. The noise boys send a MIDI note to preset a sequence, another to GO and the third to fade out.

This has worked very nicely, and allowed the band to tour their own playback system that is usable with most screens/projection setups that festivals can provide.

The other benefit from using MIDI over ethernet is, that there are no short cable restrictions and you don't need another interface to go wrong!

Nev.

I have similar experiences to Nev with LX programmers. Most of them don't mind adding a blank cue or two to allow a bit of conducive MSC triggering, but that is generally as far as it goes.

Medialon is a big hammer to crack a small nut - most modern moving light desks do MSC quite well. I've used Medialon very successfully to control Catalysts via MSC, but it is a very expensive solution.

Hugh