Can't Flip

Ok, I don't think this is specifically a Catalyst bug but I am hoping someone can shed some light on the matter.

I have 2 x G5s

The first I bought to upgrade a G4 Catalyst to version 3. It came with the stock 9600 graphics card and has 1.5 gig of ram. It worked fine and by using a raptor as my content drive I was very happy with the performance and put of upgrading to a 9800 for another time.

As work has increased I have got a second machine with a 9800 and otherwise the same spec. This has become my main Catalyst machine that lives in the case. The first is now my production machine that lives in the office.

My new machine has exhibited the following problems

1. When you rotate an image or movie you don't get a reverse side just black. This is a pain because I do a loit of stuff over multiple screens and a great effect is to flip the odd outputs so that jumbacks blend edge to edge.
My original machine and other systems I have hired all do this fine.

2. On the last show I did I was getting the flipped images to work fine until I used the cylinder in visualfx on a different layer. Then the flipped layer went to black.

3. After deciding not to use the flipped effect and instead enlarging the one file to cover both outputs I noticed a ripple or tearing on that layer evertime I changed to a new file. The tearing would go away after one or 2 loops. This problem seemed to sort itself out after a rerstart.

My gut feeling is that there seems to be some issues with the machine talking to the 9800 and perhaps an Open GL issue.

As I said I don't know that this is a software problem but I thought it best to post it in case others come up against the same thing.

Once I check the machine again at he office I will try swapping graphics cards as I still have this machines original 9600. I will check drivers etc. as this was all done at the shop I bought the machine from. Then I guess it will be off to the Mac doctor for a check up.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Toby

which os version?

10.3.3 on both machines

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tharding

2. On the last show I did I was getting the flipped images to work fine until I used the cylinder in visualfx on a different layer. Then the flipped layer went to black.

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that does indeed appear to be a bug....

i have fixed this.
should make it out in the next release which is supposed to be happening very very very soon.

Thanks Richard!

Does that mean it is likely to have been the difference between the 9600 & 9800 that was the cause? Or do I still potentially have a hardware issue that explains the tearing?

Cheers

Toby

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tharding

Thanks Richard!

Does that mean it is likely to have been the difference between the 9600 & 9800 that was the cause? Or do I still potentially have a hardware issue that explains the tearing?

Cheers

Toby

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flipping was a very simple mistake i made.

tearing is something apple did in the drivers that affects things when huge or slow movies are drawn.
and you were using huge movies.
they changed something between 10.3.2 and 10.3.3
its possible i might have to change something to try and fix this.

Actually the movies I was using that exhibited the tearing were just stock 720 x 576 Jumpbacks in DV or PhotoJpeg.

The big Animation codec files were fine.

I did have those movies zoomed in as I was displaying over multiple screens so maybe it was the enlargement that the computer was getting upset about.

As I said, it seemed to right itself after a restart.

Cheers

Toby

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tharding

Actually the movies I was using that exhibited the tearing were just stock 720 x 576 Jumpbacks in DV or PhotoJpeg.

As I said, it seemed to right itself after a restart.

Cheers

Toby

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there seems to be a little instability after restarting in graphics timing.
i need to get you to try new software, but that will have to wait until after official release.

then maybe we can work on some beta builds.

No problem

Cheers

Toby

Okay

I tried my other machine this week with a similar setup as described above and noticed that the tearing I mentioned was happening. It is intermittent and seems the worst when I change files. It seemed to be happening whether I was zoomed in or not.

Is it possibly the transparency causing this or the use of the cylinder in visualfx?

My output was as follows:

dual outputs
-layers 1 & 4 playing a jumpback with layer 4 using "Use layer"
-layers 2 & 5 playing a still from an animation file with transparency and mapped onto the cylinder 4 x to create a slow scroll across screen. Layer 5 is also using "Use Layer"
-layers 3 & 6 with a still of a logo from an animation file with transparency not moving just split over the 2 outputs to give a logo centre screen.

The tearing is happening on Layers 1 & 4. I can't verify, because I am using "Use Layer", whether layer 4 is actually tearing or just Layer 1 i.e. whether it is the output of the card or the playback of the file itself.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Toby

toby.

What disc system are you using?

R

10k Raptors as content drive in the second bay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tharding

10k Raptors as content drive in the second bay

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sometimes i noticed visual glitching occurs if the drives are doing too much.
i noticed it more with animation movies.
something is hapenning between quicktime and graphics drawing.
its something in the os.

highend still hasnt released v3.3 so i cant get you to check with that.

its now supposed to be on monday. but they told everyone at plasa 7 weeks ago, so its not a secret.

Well hopefully they do.

I have a show on Saturday so I will give you some feedback then.

Cheers

Toby

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tharding

Well hopefully they do.

I have a show on Saturday so I will give you some feedback then.

Cheers

Toby

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this saturday or next saturday?

Saturday the 6th

ill get you a beta for tomorrow if highend doesnt release a download.

Cheers

Was this fixed for you in v3.3?

Yes thankyou

good.

is there anything else that doesnt look right?

Not at this stage but I am currently doing a show just using the one output. Next week I am doing a multiple screen show which should put it through its paces.

I will let you know.

Cheers

Toby

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tharding

Not at this stage but I am currently doing a show just using the one output. Next week I am doing a multiple screen show which should put it through its paces.

Toby

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make sure you set the monitors to be the same refresh rate - before starting catalyst.

tearing issues mentioned here might have been fixed if the ATI Displays control panel gets installed.

Interesting you should say that.

I just did a show this week using 2 Catalysts outputting to 4 screens.

I have updated software and the ATI panels on both machines as per the recommended spec.

At various times through the night I had the same tearing back. I tried switching the ATI panel back to default on both machines and fiddled with some of the other settings
but to no avail.

Both machines exhibited the problem at some point during the night.

Yesterday I set everything up and ran the same show to try and establish where the problem was.

I initially thought it might be the card not coping with dual output. However the tearing appeared on a single output playing only a single file. But then I minimised the window to look at the Catalyst settings and I noticed that the tearing was still happening inside the output window.

Just to try something I switched the disc function from Fast (I have Raptors) to Slow. Problem appeared to be fixed. I ran all of the show from the previous night and the tearing did not appear.

What does the Disc function actually do. Am I limiting performance if I run in Slow mode?

Cheers

Toby

you need to look at the statistics HUD and note down the graphics percentage and movie percentage.

which graphics card are you using?
what os do you have installed?
what compression where you using with your files?

what resolution was your output screens?
what projection devices where you connected to?
and running at what refresh rate?

something does not appear to be setup correctly ?



the 'speed' setting affects a very low level graphics settings, that is way below anything i can do anything about.

depending on what graphics card you are using-

you might also have to install the latest display drivers, and possible firmware-

you can get this from

http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html

which graphics card are you using?

- ATI 9800 (Apple OEM)

what os do you have installed?

- 10.3.8

what compression where you using with your files?

- Photo JPEG @ 75% or DV PAL

what resolution was your output screens?

- 1024 x 768

what projection devices where you connected to?

- Barco R12 but problem still occured when not connected to any projector.

and running at what refresh rate?

- 75 Hz



Everything is stable when I switch to Slow Disc Mode.

Processor Performance is switched to Highest.

Latest ATI Panel and Drivers installed as at January 2005. I will try a re install.
Both Machines have a Raptor as Content Drive. I will check the HUD when I can.

Cheers

Toby

Toby.

Can you email me a screen capture of your ATI displays settings?

Richard

Here you go

both machines set the same.

Cheers

Toby

add what does your radeon info look like - in the ATI Displays?


this is what my machine looks like:

'radeon info.pdf'

and in the system profile - can you show me what yours looks like:

'system profile.pdf'

and the ati extensions in the 'system profile' application:

'ati extensions.pdf'

Did you install the October 2004 Retail Radeon update?

http://versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/21572

im really not sure whether this works with the OEM card or not.

I dont have an OEM card, only the retail one.

I will get all that to you as soon as I can. Just in the middle of some shows at the moment.

Pretty sure it was the October Update that I downloaded. I did so after you posted about it on here.

Cheers

Toby

thanks toby.

Im trying to find out what the differences are between your computer and mine wrt drivers etc.

Although it is a long time since, I am still having the tearing problem when in fast disc mode despite updating firmware and drivers for my cards. Recently I used a third rental machine in which I installed a Raptor and the tearing occured there as well.

On my machines I am now running a 4 raptor striped raid and in fast disk mode I can run 5 to 6 layers at full frame rate but in slow mode it is back down to 2 solid layers at 25 fps.

I'm hoping V4 somehow solves this problem.

Cheers

Toby

try installing 10.3.3 on a single drive in a single machine.
and see what happens.
10.3.3 has proven to be the least problematic.

also - you did use a separate disc for the system - and the media drives?

r

I have single Raptors set up as Catalyst System only drives with basic installs and no other applications. I then run my external raids or an internal content drive.

I will try the 10.3.3 option and let you know.

Cheers

Toby

I have tried the 10.3.3 install and the problem seems to have gone away.

I will test my other system and let you know.

Cheers

Toby

apple seemed to have changed something in the graphics architecture after 10.3.5
i hung around seeing if it got changed again.
10.3.3 is the best solution for now.