Travel Matte

Is it possible to have a Travel Matte?

for example:

Layer A is a background such as a sky
Layer B is a black and white image that acts as a mask
Layer C is a different clip which only displays in the black or white area of layer B

My specific application is projecting onto a 3d set that has a cutout shape in the foreground. I would like to project a different image onto the cyc in the background and be able to project another layer inside a mask that is the same shape as the foreground cutout.

Cheers

Toby

i cant think of the best way to do this right now.
it depends on your content and what is foreground and background.

can you post a diagram here of what you images?

you can use movies with alpha channels if you use the animation codec in millions of colours+ mode.

Best explanation is probably in the Final Cut Pro manual Volume III

Cheers

Toby

toby.

can you draw me something of what you are actually trying to achieve?
- im trying to help other people as well.
this is something that quite a few people have asked for.

but there are sufficient variations - that not every solution works for everyone.

r

Shall do.

Cheers

Toby

Hope this explains it.

Ideally the mask layer could be any one from 2 to 7 and every layer above that would appear in the mask.

That way you could have layers 1 thru 4 as background layers appearing as full screen. Layer 5 as the mask for the alpha channel and then still have 3 layers to muck around with inside the mask.

Cheers

Toby

thanks toby

i will see if i can come up with a simple way to do this.

Travel Mattes would be cool. They're simple to do in After Effects.

Hugh

Remember that the matte and the subsequent layer move with eachother.

This is my most needed feature. Most broadcast logo work is packaged as with a travel matte so that the logo can be layered on any background.

You could do it as a luma matte instead of alpha if alpha is still troubling you.

Christian Choi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spam Butterfly

Travel Mattes would be cool. They're simple to do in After Effects.

Hugh

---

TrkMATTES are becoming increasingly important because of all of the additional functionality added in the way of video input as well as non-DMX operation of Catalyst (opens up Catalyst to more video operators who would rather use Midi or the program itself to cue)

Just to remind everyone, Trackmattes or travelmattes are two separate files, one commonly refered to as "the Key file" and the other "The fill", played concurrently to achieve transparancy where ever one wants it. The biggest application of this is in titling and lower thirds such as scorestrips and VTPB intros.

In the corporate world and award show world this is needed desparately in order for Catalyst to completely handle all tasks within the video production.

The Corporate world is very important because you constantly have "Powerpoint" type of presentation where the presenter is onscreen with a screen capture demonstrating the latest way to build trackmattes in After Effects and on a certain word or phrase you are cued to bring in a piece of video that arcs in from the top and settles towads the lower third that says "AE7 Pro Trackmates, a title for the masses".

The Awards show world can benefit during an award sequence in which you are presented with the situation where you have one live video input of the candidates as the announcer is anouncing the prospective winners and a trackmatte that elegantly fades in with that persons name.

It's very important that Trans White or Trans Black is extremely limited and just doesn't cut it in professional situations. I've seen Catalyst so brilliantly evolve from it's infancy to this really unique and incredible program that rivals the most expensive of arcaic ENIACesque video servers you see at NAB however it is missing this one extremely important feature that those arcaic video servers all have put a priority on as a feature.

BTW, in Xcode 2.2.1 QC has a p called "mask to alpha" that I've been playing with along with color matrix and over blend mode on a billboard. Not sure what Catalyst uses besides elegantly written cocoa or C++ code, but I've been able to get the result I was looking for after some noodling.

Just my 4c
Thanks,
Christian Choi

I don't know, but from what you are describing, it sounds just like you would just need alpha in your video and key that over your current video. From what I am used to working with as a travel matte, you have three files, not two. Two video files and one Matte, you set the matte to be a travel matte and tell which video file to replace which part of the matte. You can then move the matte around without affecting the video layers' scale rotation, etc.

travel mattes are cool.

as are things like chromakey - but keying anything - with compressed footage - just opens up a huge can of worms that end-users wont expect or understand.

i dont think many people understand the minimum requirements for getting a real and usable key off digital video....

i wish i could wave a magic wand that would not get people into trouble.
but keying is such a lot of trouble....if you dont start with very good quality footage - dv isnt anywhere near good enough...

to make keying work - like the professionals - you have to work with uncompressed footage. and you have to shoot on something that has proper colour sampling.

as an effect its possible to make something that is ok, but if endusers want it to look like the pro-s - they are going to be dissapointed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jasonrudolph

I don't know, but from what you are describing, it sounds just like you would just need alpha in your video and key that over your current video. From what I am used to working with as a travel matte, you have three files, not two. Two video files and one Matte, you set the matte to be a travel matte and tell which video file to replace which part of the matte. You can then move the matte around without affecting the video layers' scale rotation, etc.

---

Hi Jason,

Sorry for the misunderstandin, I do mean 3 layers it's just that I often supply the first layer myself. In short, I build the content for the first layer and for shows such as the Superbowl or Rock and roll hall of fame induction ceremony the Avid editors usualy hand me two digibetas, 1 matte file and one fill file with the titling on it. After importing them from tape to QT, I need a way to play back these files in sync with eachother over my 1st layer so that I can have a title without an NTSC rectangle around it.

Usually the titling tapes go to an EVS system or Profile and dealt with on digibeta or HD, sometimes they are brought in digitaly.

Since I can't Sync 2 files on the same machine without them drifting, the point is mute.

Christian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samsc

travel mattes are cool.

as are things like chromakey - but keying anything - with compressed footage - just opens up a huge can of worms that end-users wont expect or understand.

i dont think many people understand the minimum requirements for getting a real and usable key off digital video....

i wish i could wave a magic wand that would not get people into trouble.
but keying is such a lot of trouble....if you dont start with very good quality footage - dv isnt anywhere near good enough...

to make keying work - like the professionals - you have to work with uncompressed footage. and you have to shoot on something that has proper colour sampling.

as an effect its possible to make something that is ok, but if endusers want it to look like the pro-s - they are going to be dissapointed.

---

Richard,

I hate to be the devils advocqate here, especially to you but:
http://www.globalstreams.com/ You're right, keying with DV sucks. I've done it both in DV and using a camera that shoots uncompressed video. I would take the tape and bring it into FCP, then AE or Shake and use Keylight to key out the greenscreen and bluescreens that I setup. I then layer this footage over other content so I could get the artists layered into the content and play it onscreen via one layer in Catalyst.

I would do things like use this cycore filter in AE called dots (I think) where I could take my artist keys and disintegrate them into this matrix of dots that would fly off the screen, all sorts of cool stuff.

Here are some tips to chromakey succesfully.
1. Light your blue or green screen 1 stop brighter than your foreground image.
2. If you can at all avoid it, don't use a dv cam, you need something that will record 4:2:2 uncompresed video. There are some fairly cheap to rent xd cameras out there.
3. If using keylight or primatte make sure you look at your key through all the different status veiws and understand what they are for. Most of the time when I'm keying out a b/g scrn subject, I'm looking only at black, grey, and white pixels, each color representing the amount of transparancy.
4. A slight feather can soften the key edge just enough
5. dilate erode is a great macro in shake that will eat away or expand your matte in subpixel resolutions. This can be very useful.

As richard pointed out, if you are just doing some wacky effect type stuff, a good DV camera will work fine. Just know and master Keylight and Primatte.

The globecaster Live and 6000 will key live. You could take the output and feed it into catalysts input. reflecmedia.com is a very cool concept for live key situations. I forsee this technology coming more into play in the future. They are even working on a keyable cloth that has matchmove markings embeded invisibly within the grey key material.

BTW: This should be in a different topic. Key and Fill titling technique has nothing to do with chromakey. Sorry if I confused anyone. I could see how it could sound like that's what I'm talking about.

Also, Catalyst with live Keying would be over the top awesome. Let's do it Richard!

Kindly,
Christian

Cristian,

Have you experimented with Xserve RAIDs at all? I have been able to get very good results with one. I can get quite a lot done with one serving 8 Catalyst servers doing SD. I'm sure if you were to use serve less catalysts off of one, and used the correct codecs this might be possible to do (of course there still lies the limitation of the color modes). An xserve RAID serving a catalyst built around a Quad G5 should have the horsepower to pull something like this off. I have not tried it just yet, but if you could get one layer to work using the animation codec, which supports Alpha channels, and one using either DVntsc (if they are giving you a Beta meant for broadcast anyways you wont be losing anthingin your colorspace) or perhaps PhotoJpeg you might be able to do this. I know these are more expensive pieces of gear, but it is still probably cheaper than Profile, while being a little more versatile.

What do you think Richard?

Jason

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jasonrudolph

Cristian,

Have you experimented with Xserve RAIDs at all? I have been able to get very good results with one. I can get quite a lot done with one serving 8 Catalyst servers doing SD. I'm sure if you were to use serve less catalysts off of one, and used the correct codecs this might be possible to do (of course there still lies the limitation of the color modes). An xserve RAID serving a catalyst built around a Quad G5 should have the horsepower to pull something like this off. I have not tried it just yet, but if you could get one layer to work using the animation codec, which supports Alpha channels, and one using either DVntsc (if they are giving you a Beta meant for broadcast anyways you wont be losing anthingin your colorspace) or perhaps PhotoJpeg you might be able to do this. I know these are more expensive pieces of gear, but it is still probably cheaper than Profile, while being a little more versatile.

What do you think Richard?

Jason

---

I think that is one of the best possible setups, especially for SD DV. Unfortunately, I don't have the Xserve raid though I do have an 8 drive raptor array (or 2 4 drive arrays) which has served me well playing HD and uncompressed 4:2:2 SD. With 8 drives I could play 4 strong layers of 1080P compressed, with 4 drives I can play 2 HD layers and 1 HD laer that runs at about 18 fps.

Xserve Raid is defenitely one of the best alternatives, however not cheap. When you are really pushing it with all of your machines does it at all studder? Studdering is one of the most intolerable attributes for the people I used to work frequently with. I once did a Catalyst demo for the Grammys the year they had the big wings and Walter Miller, the Director was so intent on finding studdering. He is about 70 so he kept saying he saw studdering but the 4 others in the room kept saying what studdering? I think he had heard about the studdering from other gigs but I had my raptor array hooked up and there was no studdering. Another time when I had to put together an emergency show and fiber it to NY then Sat feed it to Equador from there, the fiber receiver kept complaining about studdering thinking I was feeding it through Catalyst. For a very long time Catalyst digital Video was synonomise with studdering. I went to great lengths when I was programming Catalyst frequently to make sure there was no studdering and everyone thought I was crazy.

You can get higher speeds with Sata II now and for a fraction of the cost. There are also other brands of Xsan. I'd like to experiment more with all types of arrays and file systems. Huge systems had a very fast Xsan system when I last checked.

If I could just get that color mode, I would play the matte and the fill without sync and they keep up with each other as long as you start them at the same time. Most of the travel mattes are just play once and stop and they don't last long so going without sync within the same machine shouldn't be a problem.

As you know, when you are in the midddle of rehearsal and someone hands you two uncompressed files (a key and fill) for a title, you don't have too much time to get them into Aftereffects or Shake, comp them together, render them out as a pixlet, png, photojpeg or any other millions+ codec that supports alpha, get it accross all of your machines or your main Raid array. It takes a fraction of time to just pop in your usb drive and drag the files to you title directory, renumber them, and do a quick shift scan.

It would be really convenient to have that color mode but for now I'll just have to keep comping them during my lunch break. Getting the Avid people to comp them is really difficult to do since they are so used to handing them in separately and they aren't compositors. "Compositing is my job" I was once told, they just batch render the clips while they browse ebay and hand the batches in when their finished.

You are lucky Jason because you work in a friendly environment. Even though you get content thrown at you at the last minute, it's much more of a cooperative atmosphere there between playback and Catalyst isn't it?

Christian

With the latest version of catalyst being able to run on Tiger, my performance just shot through the roof, as the Xserve RAID drivers are MUCh better than they were on 10.3.x On my last show, doing all SD, I was able to have 7 catalysts playing back two files each, and an 8th server which was doing three seperate outputs (so 6 files playing back sometimes) and I did not notice a stutter anywhere, except for one file the art department gave me which had been encoded to Pjpeg at 100% quality.
Also, As a test when I first got the whole system set up on site, but did not yet have any projectors or LED walls up, I put one file of a fan that I had shot, slow motion, and let it play on all 8 catalysts, they stayed perfectly in sync with each other for around 4 hours. These had been encoded as DVntsc. This was not using the sync feature, just started them all at the same time and let them run.

I also used this sytem at the Latin Grammy's this year, and it performed very well. The only issue I had was that I had a really nasty delay on the SDI input (like almost 2 seconds), and they wanted to sync something with audio, so we had to delay the audio and roll it off of a backup profile.

While Xserve RAID is not cheap, it is not really any more expensive than the Huge systems arrays, or anyone else's for that matter, and when I was putting together this sytem, it actually ended up being around the same cost as doing SCSI for each machien, but with much larger disc capacities.
While SATA II does have faster throughput, the disc latencies are still the same as SATA I so it does not really help us all that much for Catalyst. The benfit, is that you can do port multiplication, and create larger arrays, and do more uncompressed stuff if you want.

If you could get Animation to work on a G5 using catalyst, then this would really solve your problem. You'll have to ingest from tape anyways and render out to whatever format you are using anyways.....

Yes, I am a little lucky in the environment I work in, however I still get artist's people coming to me 10 minutes before rehearsals with a beta all the time, and the same goes with people from withing the network who are not used to working with me, but I have trained most of the graphics artists to give me what I want and how, and we work to gether so that if it is something that can be easily accomplished in Catalyst, I handle it, if it's not, they take care of it for me ahead of time. It's becoming more and more of a challenge, because for each show, they put more and more on my plate, and I live up to it, so the tasks just keep getting larger and larger. It gets to a point where you hit a limit of how much one person can really handle.

That's great.

Definately the way to go. You're lucky to have the Xserve Raid.

Christian

You could try using trans white on the matte with the brown layer beneath it then use a blend mode on the brown layer over the blue one. Some of the new blending modes might include an alpha stencil or luma stensil. If you don't have any success try premultiplying the matte into and RGB .mov and using it as a standard black and white movie and do the same as decribed above.

The only surefired way I can do this is in Shake, AE or Combustion right now as a trackmatte or using a luma or alpha matte.

Again, It is very much needed in logo and live compositing where you composite a logo over either another layer or a live input. The only way you can make everything transparent around the logo, unless it is pure black and/or white is to use a matte, Richard.

Richard this is much like trans black/white except we would need it for any range or combination of colors. You can achieve this in Quartz.

Christian Choi