Printable View
For the TV show i am working on the video dept is constantly asking me to dim down various led screens that i have mapped into mixes. The problem is that then they are transparent thus revealing my next or previous cue. A master intensity channel per mix would be fantastic!!!!!
I assume you are not using a DMX controller , am right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerr
this happens via DMX as well, I run into this all the time in the world of TV, you need to bring down the intensity, but then you see through to layers behind the front one. What I have done sometimes in the past, is to use a color effect to darken the output, but you can't always do this. Having a master intensity that does not affect opacity per mix would be very handy.
Excuse me , you are right , I though that was there already :-)
but it's not .
Agree with you
yes. actually this stuff is useful-
i came across this years and years ago - and it was the reason that people used celco desks on tv shoots - because they have a master output knob for each channel.
Sometimes even i think up usefull stuff.
I look forward to a knob in Catalyst.
Just a suggestion... If I need to fade an output, I will usually use library 0 and file 1 (which is a black file) on a top layer. Then I can bring up the intensity of this layer on an independant fader and it acks like a fade to the whole mix. Yes, I know you loose a layer by doing this but until there's an upgrade, it's a good workaround.
Awesome idea if you have the available layer, I will definitely put that one in my back pocket.Quote:
Originally Posted by SourceChild
Well it seems to me with all the control we are given already with Mix Layer Selection , and Mix Shape....there really ought to be a whole DMX profile just for mixes.
So a user would simply patch a whole Mix as a fixture from the DMX console, which includes the Mix Layer Select, and Mix Shape parameters.
Other things I would personally like to see with this are a Master Intensity (as already stated), and Color FX, and Visual FX just like on the regular layers.
I hate to draw this comparison to another product here, but....it would be great if Mixes were controllable much in the same way as the "GLOBAL" fixture of a DL.2.
So a DMX chart might look something like this:
MIX LAYER FIXTURE
1 - Mix Intensity
2 thru 17 - Mix layer select
18 Output-1 select
19 Output-2 select
20+21 Mix X-position (pixel placement in raster)
22+23 Mix Y-position (pixel placement in raster)
24 Mix X-size/aspect
25 Mix Y-size/aspect
26 X1 Shape
27 Y1 Shape
28 X2 Shape
29 Y2 Shape
30 X3 Shape
31 Y3 Shape
32 X4 Shape
33 Y4 Shape
34 Mix Color FX
35 thru 37 - CMY/RGB parameter control
38 Mix Visual FX
39 VFX param-1
40 VFX param-2
Does this make sense? 40 channels just like a sub-layer.
I do realize that with 12 layers + 4 mixes this goes way over a single DMX universe, but this is easily overcome by using ArtNET, or using fewer layers/mixes.
Does no one else have any thoughts on this??
I'd love a light version of layers layout . No Keystone , no strobe , no trail .Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Postma
Very basic stuf to control only the contents .
All other control could then go in the Mix control .
Not as standard , I do not say I don't want the 40ch , but I'll like a light version of the layer .
Also I wish a A/B crossfade layout . Say 6 A/B xfade layers .
the A/B xfade it's very useful , once you set the geometry in the Layer what you have to do it's only to select different contents and fade from A to B
Easy simple and useful , 90% of catalyst programming it's about crossfade from one content to an other .
I'm sure someone will jump in and will say that I'm having the worst idea by thinking to the A/B xfade but this is what I wish .
Not at all...in fact there is some similar discussion going on in the DL.2 forums.
The PRG MBox already does this.
All we really need is two extra channels...one that determines the type of crossfade, and another that determines the speed.
So that once you change your Folder/File values...instead of "snapping" to the next piece of content...it follows the settings on these two new channels.
This should be added to the layers....maybe even as a Visual FX...with FX Param-1 being "type of crossfade" and Param-2 being "crossfade speed".
Here is the thread on the HES forums for anyone who is interested:
http://forums.highend.com/showthread.php?t=4931
I wish it could be so easy to do , but i think transitions cost a lots of GPU resources . May be it could be possible if a A/B layer stand as Two .Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Postma
As far I know this is a very old request but it's never come to light , there must be some reason .
Also, Martin this A/B will solve even your transparency issue , isn't it ?
I certainly hope it is easy....I'm sure Richard will make it look that way if it is possible. I would think that with the newer machines that there are enough resources for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by emilianomorgia
Yes A/B could solve some of the earlier mentioned transparency issues, but so could a Visual FX on a Layer as the crossfade would then be occuring on a single Layer as opposed to two.Quote:
Originally Posted by emilianomorgia
I agree that a smaller DMX footprint for Layers would be great too, especially if some of the control (such as keystone, etc) goes into a Mix Control "fixture".Quote:
Originally Posted by emilianomorgia
Losing Keystone would save 8 channels per layer alone:)
Actually, this really wouldn't solve the transparency issues. Most of the problem comes from when you have two layers composited (via alpha or an effect) and you need to decrease the intensity of the image on the output for camera (too bright of a background, etc), and the top layer starts to become transparent and shows the layer behind it. I have run into this problem many times, and it is a very annoying problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Postma
Having a master intensity that does not effect opacity of the layers is really what is needed to solve this problem.
I agree completely on the need for a Mix Intensity.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonrudolph
I totally agree on the mix master intensity as reducing the intensity of a layer may cause problems with transparency...
But I do not see the advantage of having live control on mix properties.
I am quite glad that I can setup my mixes in the HUD and don´t have to have to program this on the lighting console.
Mixes are for system setup and layers are for live programming - that is the way I see it...
When do you have different layers keystone inside the same mix ?Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliR
This would only add the option to be able to control this from the console...not replace the HUD, which I agree is very useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliR
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by emilianomorgia
Here's just one example....
(1) v4.1 Server
Output 1 - Preview monitor set to "Separate Layers w/FX"
Output 2 - goes to a Matrox Triple Head that then goes out to (3) DL-1s
Mixes 2-4 are the "outputs" of the DL-1s respectively
Mix 2 uses layers 1-4
Mix 3 uses layers 5-8
Mix 4 uses layers 9-12
It is much faster and easier to adjust the Mix Keystone for the DL-1s rather than having to eat up the Visual FX on each Layer to keystone, and then having to program the Scale and Keystone info for each individual piece of content on each Layer separately.
Being able to control this and store Mix Keystone parameters into Position Palettes on the desk is critical here, as trying to adjust the keystone on each Mix for each DL-1 simultaneously is near impossible.
Marty,Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Postma
I have been thinking about this quite a bit. For the rest of you as well, I have actually spent a great deal of time thinking about this. I have a Visio Project I have created to depict hierachy formed by a spreadsheet I've spent time planning. The idea is to have three different fixtures within Catalyst.
- Layer Control
- Mix Control
- Effects Assign
For now, just have it be known that I am submitting something soon which I hope is very well recieved.
I have been basing my thoughts on all the best features I love from Pandora's Box, Axon2, Arkaos, and Catalyst. My only hope is that some of these ideas will implementable by Richard and not cross any rights on these other products.
A Trick for this I have posted in another thread is to take your top layer and decrease the RGB simultaneously to darken the layer, the same way you would when you use colorFX 1 and 2 to decrease the brighness of each fx.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonrudolph
Conversely, you can also have another layer on top of the stack with Lib 000 and file 001 (which is black) and by fading that layer up, it darkens the mix.
Granted this isn't what you are talking about, but a fix for the issue.
Yes, there are ways to fix this when you can program it ahead of time, but my biggest problem is that I need to be able to adjust this on the fly, usually by creating a group master/inhibitive to ride levels on the fly. It changes based on the content, the camera shot, the way cameras were shaded that day, etc. It is not something that can always bee foreseen as well, and that is where the problem normally shows up. Also, there are times when I am using the color fx (actually, I normally end up using color controls in every cue, whether it be an HSC mode to adjust for the particular display devices to match on camera, or just changing a color) so it's normally not an option for me to use the color parameters.Quote:
Originally Posted by SourceChild
On other servers, its not as big of an issue, as there are dedicated Sat/Contrast controls or you have multiple effects on each layer, but in catalyst, you only have one color effect, which is controlled by the RGB parameters, so it is a much bigger problem for me with Catalyst.
yep...which is why it would be nice to also have a Colour FX and Visual FX at the MIX level as well. (See my earlier MIX FIXTURE profile suggestions posted earlier).Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonrudolph
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonrudolph
Marty, I agree with you. Jason, you also. Of course my comments earlier in the post where to have independent FX fixtures within Catalyst that can be assigned either to a Mix or a Layer allowing for stacking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Postma
Jason, I feel ya on adjusting colors in almost every cue. I deal with that quite a bit. It's been especially tough since one of my clients realized that with an LFG4, catalyst is sort of like a switcher. (I don't even want to begin telling you what kind of pain in the ass it is to run a rig of lights w video cues as well as using my desk to "switch" video inputs dynamically).
Just a note though, my suggestion is simply this. Take the top layer in the stack and make it the black 001 file and throw it on an intensity fader and you have an instant dynamic gain control. (Yes at the loss of a layer to do it).
Not a terrible workaround for now.
Also an interesting idea on the FX assign. There are several 3-D modelling programs that have this "FX-patching" ability already, so I would think that it shouldn't be a problem legally.
I'd love to hear from Richard on the idea of an overall Mix Fixture...maybe time for e-mail ;)
Can you create a fixture profile where 100% on the controller means 70% or whatever level on the LED fixture you are using to create the screen?
I would think that this depends on your DMX desk.Quote:
Originally Posted by corpos12
On Hog-3, for example, you can do what is called "Proportional Patching" by simply going into Patch and setting the "maximum" level.
As Marty already stated - on the controller side you could limit the value - but that would get back the issue of semi-transparent layers...
So best solution here is again a black image @ some percent intensity on top of all other layers.
It could be an interesting option to limit single colours of the RGB system as alot of LED fixtures overpower blue (and sometimes red) compared to the display on a computer monitor (green LEDs output less light at the same power...)
So a limitation of single colour (as part of the fixturetypes.xml) would be a nice option... - Sure you can colour correct all of your footage for optimized playback on your LEDs - but it is quite time-consuming...