Overall File tearing and artifacts?

So I have seen this on a few " rental " machines that I have used lately and was wondering what the best way to go about making sure it doesn't happen is? The issue is seeing files that have tearing or some blank pixel artifacts in them. Now I thought that it might just be that file but I looked at other files in the machine and saw it on several of them. I also saw it on more then one machine and it is in teh same place on the file each time. Now coming from the PC world my thoughts were to just format the machine and then reload everything but I am not sure if that is the best idea using a MAC. So if anyone has any ideas on the best way to make sure that these " rental " machines are all in the best shape before i do my shows please let me know.

Thanks as always

Cameron

who are these 'rental' machines from ??? -

I look after 18 in the UK and tend to rebuild from scratch if they've been out for a long time. Some shorter gigs only get 'cleaned' but thoroughly tested, and re-build if not up to spec and I;m not happy with them.....

1st advice is - Check all the settings and ensure that it is in optimal performance and that theres nothing else running in the BG. Also check the ATI panel settings and disk permissions....

This is coming from a programmer who routinely gets Catalyst units from alll different vendors.
Some vendors are great and will do a good reinstall of everything after shows, others... not too much.
Personally what I've started doing is whenever I have a show I open up the mac, make sure everything is well seated, no connectors in side broke or damaged.
then I'll give the HDD a good once over to make sure there isn't anything excessive installed on the machine that could create conflicts.

So when you " rebild " what all do you do ?

Cameron

Take the whole machine apart - check all the card serial numbers (make sure they are ours...) blow out all the dust - clean the fans, clean the case. Re-install cards, wipe content drive. in cases where other software has been installed. I wipe the system drive and re-install from a disk image I've created - it has the best optimised settings, and all relevant software and drivers installed etc. Output panels and scan converters etc usually need checking and some re-wiring

Now that V4 is comming along - I'm starting to build dual partition so still got option of either version (once v4 is properly released)

Then soak test it all for about 4 hours and check al outputs. Its a bit of a long process - but some of it gets done when the catalysts come back off jobs - so that theres a quick turn around when they go back out...

for file tearing try v3.31

this was caused by apple changing a graphics algorithm after 10.3.5

So preferred versions are v3.31 running osx 10.3.5 ???


Cameron

Unfortunately 3.31 is still tearing. I just gave it a major workout on 10.3.9 and it still tears.

Haven't tried 10.3.3 + 3.31 yet but 3.3 is stable on 10.3.3.

My systems use dedicated OS X drives which I reformat on a regular basis and I am pretty religious about only having a basic install on these. I use external SATA RAIDS and have a second disk in the machine which I use to boot from if I need to edit onsite or use the G5 for something els.

Cheers

Toby

If you still have an 'old' style G5 and are lucky enough to be able to run 10.3.3 with all relevant updates - this is the most stable solution for V3.3 G21. However, If you have a 'newer' G5 which came with Tiger installed - you wont be able to downgrade back to 10.3.3 - so in this case - 10.3.9 with all relevant updates and V3.3 G21 is most stable. However, you will have to select 'slow disks' to get arround issues of catalyst crashing. (an open GL bug - i've been told....)

As for a stable platform to run v3.31 - in theory - the answer is 10.3.9 with all relevant updates and up to date ATI drivers etc. However, I havent had a chance to fully test this yet.... So I'll be sticking to 10.3.3 + V3.3 G21 until I can prove that v3.31 is show worthy and stable on 10.3.9. At the moment we're staying away from tiger...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tharding

Unfortunately 3.31 is still tearing. I just gave it a major workout on 10.3.9 and it still tears.

Haven't tried 10.3.3 + 3.31 yet but 3.3 is stable on 10.3.3.

My systems use dedicated OS X drives which I reformat on a regular basis and I am pretty religious about only having a basic install on these. I use external SATA RAIDS and have a second disk in the machine which I use to boot from if I need to edit onsite or use the G5 for something els.

Cheers

Toby

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there are different kinds of tearing....one of them is called vsync off and is a feature used by graphics cards manufactureres so that they can get the headline frame rate up in games applications.

if you have setup the ati displays control panel to use a custom application profile. then you need to have 'vertical sync' set to ON.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr_P

you will have to select 'slow disks' to get arround issues of catalyst crashing. (an open GL bug - i've been told....)

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you dont want to use 'slow disc' mode in 3.31 it kills performance. ( and in 3.3 )
it was a driver sync bug when a new movie loaded. related to other changes around 10.3.5

it is fixed in 3.31

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr_P

As for a stable platform to run v3.31 - in theory - the answer is 10.3.9 with all relevant updates and up to date ATI drivers etc. However, I havent had a chance to fully test this yet.... So I'll be sticking to 10.3.3 + V3.3 G21 until I can prove that v3.31 is show worthy and stable on 10.3.9. At the moment we're staying away from tiger...

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it gets to be show worthy by people using it and reporting problems....apart from that there is no magic wand i can wave.

having to deal with the mulititude of endless hardware and software changes from apple the last year has been just about impossible.

this is an open platform - not fixed like a lighting console.
end users can install their own software and hardware.

there is no way that any more than a small number of configurations can ever be tested.

I have my machines set exactly as specified here with vertical sync set to on.

I have experimented with turning it off but of course everything turns to crap

Cheers

Toby

The sooner a 'BASE' configuration is quoted - the better...

It IS possible to have a basic configuration to use as a base for testing and development. There are FEW options involved when you look at the HW/SW spec

Agreed - there are the 'newer' and 'older' 2G G5's the latter will run 10.0.3, the former will not (10.3.9) Heres a spec most people dont deviate from:

Dual 2G Mac
OS 10.3.3 (or 10.3.9)
512MB Ram
SATA System HD
SCSI Content Drive
ATTO SCSI Controller
ATI 9800 SE 256MB
USB card (with internal port for dongle)
Miglia Alchemy Capture Card - or Blackmagic SDI capture Card
optional Keyspan USB adaptor

Software: Nothing other than the OS loaded + updates + catalyst.
ATI drivers + control panel
Atto dirvers
Keyspan drivers
Black magic or alchemy drivers
re-namer program (Renamer4Mac)
(VNC software - tech only - OSXvnc + Chicken of the VNC)


Its a pretty simple spec.
Hire companies dont send out machines with other software on..... (what the users put on is down to them - hence why they get wiped when returned.)

Most designers use their own Macs / laptops for editing and content creation - so dont tend to install any software on the servers - (apart from OSXvnc for network access, only when needed)

SO - hardware spec is pretty simple, software spec is simple... Its a basic spec that everyone uses... why not use it as a minimum spec and benchmark for testing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tharding

I have my machines set exactly as specified here with vertical sync set to on.

I have experimented with turning it off but of course everything turns to crap

Cheers

Toby

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try 10.4.4 on a clean drive.

dont install any ati extensions, or control panels.

one of the problems related to this went away around 10.4.3.

...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr_P

The sooner a 'BASE' configuration is quoted - the better...
SO - hardware spec is pretty simple, software spec is simple... Its a basic spec that everyone uses... why not use it as a minimum spec and benchmark for testing?

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in the real world its much much more complex.

people dont stick to any system, or spec.
people install all sorts of things in all sorts of combinations.

I know because when i request system profiles from people - what is returned is a range of setups even from a single gig or the same rental company - ( but often there are cross-hire systems - and they are never the same .)

there are hundreds and hundreds of these systems out there.
this stuff has been on sales for 2 years.
and started out with hardware that was quite different from now.

i do have a basic benchmark for testing - but its useless for dealing with the range of hardware out there.

for example : the blackmagic drivers change the whole time ( and have started to affect some performance things ).

there are different opengl bugs - in different combinations with different graphics cards and different drivers.

also the new hardware which uses pci-express and is not compatible with 10.3.x introduces a new set of problems.

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aside from this - there really are a significant number of hardware failures that crop up which confuse the whole thing.
computers get the crap beaten out of them on the road doing shows.


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having said all this - there are only a handful of issues that crop up in my software.
but they are the tricky ones that change when apple changes the os.
there is some glitching - but it comes and goes - and changes in the os.
i try to work around them, or find ways - but i cant always guarantee i find everything - which is why i need your cooperation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr_P

SO - hardware spec is pretty simple, software spec is simple... Its a basic spec that everyone uses... why not use it as a minimum spec and benchmark for testing?

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another thing to watch out for with computers is this:

You dont ever presume something will work - unless the exact same hardware and software has been used.

you work backwards.
you presume it doesnt work unless its been tested to work.

I have been doing this for far too long to ever make any assumptions that things will work.
i assume they dont and work forwards.

and its often really surprising and odd things that break stuff.
like wierd usb hardware. and wierd drivers.
and it really surprising when it does work....

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so far tiger has been pretty stable for me.

now that 10.4.4 is out, and the tertiary bugs ( 3rd generation - bug fixes of bug fixes ) have been dealt with.

Catalyst should have worked out of the box on tiger - i dont do anything wierd or unusual - but apple broke something crucial ( they deprecated some opengl stuff ) - and it never got fixed - hence the need for 3.31.

Also this same bit that got broken on tiger on desktops and real graphics cards - WORKS on the Mac mini - and is the only thing you can use....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tharding

I have my machines set exactly as specified here with vertical sync set to on.
Toby

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can you tell me more about your system?

how many screens?

what size screens? 1024x768?

30fps?

can you send me a system profile?