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samsc
23-03-2014, 12:15 PM
15/oct/14

m466B
replacement for m364

compatible with v5 dongles

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rao9ucu0ozpmdze/m466B.dmg?dl=0
password xenon

bug reports to bugs@samsc.com - please

thanks

NevBull
23-03-2014, 12:47 PM
Great to see this released. Thanks for all of the hard work Richard!

Nev.

blamelewis
23-03-2014, 01:13 PM
Ditto Richard, thank you.

In case anyone doesn't know Mavericks has more restrictive security for third party apps - when you (first) double click Catalyst the OS will refuse to open it. To get round this *right* click (or cmd-click) and choose open, you'll then get the option to open it or not. Like grown ups.

Best

Tim

wodie
23-03-2014, 03:57 PM
Dear Richard,

Thank you and congratulations for this release, many of us been anxious for it, and we know it took a lot of time and effort from you..

samsc
23-03-2014, 04:11 PM
Dear Richard,

Thank you and congratulations for this release, many of us been anxious for it, and we know it took a lot of time and effort from you..

i didn't want to release until we had a chance to test on new mac pros-
people have only had them a few weeks- if that
10.9.2 is currently unusable with lots of audio crashes in OS -
10.9.3 in beta is better -

still early days with hardware testing

Oscar Jimenez Casabella
31-03-2014, 09:00 AM
i didn't want to release until we had a chance to test on new mac pros-
people have only had them a few weeks- if that
10.9.2 is currently unusable with lots of audio crashes in OS -
10.9.3 in beta is better -

still early days with hardware testing

Thanks for all your good work!!!

blamelewis
01-04-2014, 07:32 PM
I can report a real world test with a full spec new Mac Pro, I got 19 layers of 1920x1080 @ 25fps playing back seamlessly (encoded as AIC using Cat's built in conversion). This was on 10.9.2 and I had a couple of crashes during programming but only until I converted the media. Media played from the Mac Pro's boot drive (1TB SSD). What else? All on one mix, many of the layers in colour fx 85, many using visual fx 204...

In short. Wow.

T.

NevBull
02-04-2014, 12:24 PM
hey Tim - sounds similar to my testing - I got 19-20 1080 playback layers also

Still testing capture with external chassis.

Nev.

THOMASL
02-04-2014, 12:42 PM
It sounds great. How is config of your mac? (grafic, proc, etc…)

Laura
02-04-2014, 03:18 PM
Cheers Richard!
Laura

5th Element
04-04-2014, 08:49 PM
Please post back if you have any info on capture with an external chassis, I would be very interested to know what seems to work.

ajmaudio
04-04-2014, 08:50 PM
are any of these tests being done on a base model? If not what are the machine specs? Thanks

blamelewis
07-04-2014, 10:15 AM
Hi ajmaudio, my tests were done on a "maxed out" Mac Pro (i.e. with all upgrades possible from the Apple Store online)

New Mac Pro users may be interested in this by the way: http://www.tuaw.com/2014/03/27/a-rack-mount-for-the-mac-pro-and-other-news-for-march-27-2014/

ajmaudio
08-04-2014, 04:35 AM
Ok.. thanks for that... now hopefully someone has tested a lower powered config... interested to see the difference. Also.. did you run your OS and content of of the same internal drive? If so did you partition it? If not what did you do. Thanks!

I am actually a tad shocked at the performance you guys are getting... wonder where all this extra throughput is coming from..

samsc
08-04-2014, 06:15 AM
Ok.. thanks for that... now hopefully someone has tested a lower powered config... interested to see the difference. Also.. did you run your OS and content of of the same internal drive? If so did you partition it? If not what did you do. Thanks!

I am actually a tad shocked at the performance you guys are getting... wonder where all this extra throughput is coming from..

People need to try the prores codecs

Prores proxy is fastest
Prores lt about same as AIC

-

I made no graphics changes for mavericks or new Mac Pro
Same code runs on 10.6 - 10.9
Performance all comes from apple hardware and software

New mac pro Internal ssd is about 6 times faster than old Mac Pro discs


Os Performance has increased gradually since 10.6

ajmaudio
09-04-2014, 01:04 AM
how doe proxy compare to say AIC in quality

samsc
10-04-2014, 02:57 PM
You should test - see if you can see any difference

All codecs quality depends on content

I always edit using prores proxy files - as it's the fastest on laptops

michaeltdc
11-04-2014, 04:18 AM
Testing with a Base model Mac Pro3.7GHz quad-core with 10MB of L3 cache
12GB (3x4GB) of 1866MHz DDR3 ECC
256GB PCIe-based flash storage
Dual AMD FirePro D300 GPUs with 2GB of GDDR5 VRAM each
Appears very stable running 16 streams of HD and 1 4k - before I had any frame rates drop below 25fps.
I need some help on how I might be able to hook up more than 2 outputs.
Cheers
Michael
:)

ajmaudio
11-04-2014, 04:22 AM
Thanks Richard. I will try when I get a chance... currently on a tour running Prores 422 and pretty happy. I will certainly try proxy on one a laptop rig and report performance. I am mostly interested in any "perceivable" difference in proxy and 422 in typical touring usage.

5th Element
11-04-2014, 04:51 AM
I use pro-res 422 LT if it is something with text that needs to be very clear and readable or things that are going to have a close more critical viewing location. Other than that pro-res proxy typically works fine and you can't really tell the difference. You will be able to run MANY more layers in proxy then with AIC in any testing that I have done, so I prefer to use it if I can.
We have some mac minis that we can run 6 layers of 4352 x 720 without a frame drop at 30 fps in pro-res proxy, so mac pros will smoke…

samsc
11-04-2014, 06:15 AM
On older mac pros - approx indication of performance difference
1080p
There are 5 different prores codecs with very different performance
Prores 4444 - 1layer
Prores hq - 2
Prores 422 - 3
Prores lt - 5
Prores proxy 6-8

So you adjust for how many layers you need
More layers- use faster codec
Less layers - use slower ones

samsc
11-04-2014, 11:16 AM
Testing with a Base model Mac Pro3.7GHz quad-core .
I need some help on how I might be able to hook up more than 2 outputs.
Cheers
Michael
:)

A future version will support more outputs- when we figure out what the limits are in new mac pro

michaeltdc
12-04-2014, 05:56 AM
Further testing on Number of outputs from the New Pro pro reveals that you can only get 3 outputs with a combination of DVI and HDMI. Apparently by using dual link DVI cables there will be more outputs available. I have ordered 4 dual links to see what can occur. You can connect 6 thunderbolt monitors - however not much use to us.
We also found that HDCP can be implemented on some switches - we found injecting a Parrot into the chain solved that HDCP problem.
I will let you all know the outcome of the Dual Link DVI testing.
Michael

samsc
12-04-2014, 07:41 AM
Further testing on Number of outputs from the New Pro pro reveals that you can only get 3 outputs with a combination of DVI and HDMI. Apparently by using dual link DVI cables there will be more outputs available. I have ordered 4 dual links to see what can occur. You can connect 6 thunderbolt monitors - however not much use to us.
We also found that HDCP can be implemented on some switches - we found injecting a Parrot into the chain solved that HDCP problem.
I will let you all know the outcome of the Dual Link DVI testing.
Michael

You have to use active dual link adaptors
Which usually means they need to be the powered types

I think display port triple and dual heads to go might work as well

Some people have also tested x4s with 4k outputs

Also there are only 3 output thunderbolt buses- they are paired up- so output monitors in some configurations need to be set up to take account of this

ajmaudio
12-04-2014, 06:02 PM
Testing with a Base model Mac Pro3.7GHz quad-core with 10MB of L3 cache
12GB (3x4GB) of 1866MHz DDR3 ECC
256GB PCIe-based flash storage
Dual AMD FirePro D300 GPUs with 2GB of GDDR5 VRAM each
Appears very stable running 16 streams of HD and 1 4k - before I had any frame rates drop below 25fps.
I need some help on how I might be able to hook up more than 2 outputs.
Cheers
Michael
:)

Just to be clear.. that was 16 HD streams and a $k stream at the same time? what codec? Bitrate? Thanks for postin gthis

michaeltdc
14-04-2014, 01:35 AM
You have to use active dual link adaptors
Which usually means they need to be the powered types

I think display port triple and dual heads to go might work as well

Some people have also tested x4s with 4k outputs

Also there are only 3 output thunderbolt buses- they are paired up- so output monitors in some configurations need to be set up to take account of this

I will look at the X4 and triple heads optional later this week, as we have all of those items.
I was interested in seeing how many individual outputs we could drive in HD.
Active Dual links have been ordered....will let you know how we go.

michaeltdc
14-04-2014, 01:46 AM
Just to be clear.. that was 16 HD streams and a $k stream at the same time? what codec? Bitrate? Thanks for postin gthis

The files were mainly AIC 1920 x 1080 from the stock Catalyst HD Library
30fps
64.05 Mbit/S
And a 4k file that was Pro res 422
3840 x 2160
394mbps

Mauricio Caicedo
23-04-2014, 09:48 PM
I am very happy for the update, will try out as soon as possible...

regards,

michaeltdc
24-04-2014, 10:37 AM
You have to use active dual link adaptors
Which usually means they need to be the powered types

I think display port triple and dual heads to go might work as well

Some people have also tested x4s with 4k outputs

Also there are only 3 output thunderbolt buses- they are paired up- so output monitors in some configurations need to be set up to take account of this

Using Dual Link DVI - I was able too get 5 (1920 x 1080) outputs on the Basic New Mac pro. 1 was a thunderbolt monitor and the other 4 were Dual Link DVI.

I would post a screen grab - but can't seems to work out how to do this

5th Element
02-05-2014, 05:10 AM
OK, So I am putting together a venue where we will have 3 plasmas in a 1 x 3 vertical config. I wanted to use a new mac pro with an X4. I should be able to take a mini-display port to dual link DVI, (bus powered ok?) and go into an X4. If I output 3840 x 2160 on the mac, and then use the X4 to slice it up into the appropriate orientation that should work right?

They actually have 2 columns and I was originally going to just mirror them with DAs but is it maybe possible to have two X4s, running 2x4k and then?

Anyone tried testing this setup yet? I have not had access to two x4s.

Mr_P
02-05-2014, 11:13 AM
Yes - should work. We've done this...

You need to use an active Dual-Link DVI adaptor to connect to the X4
But - do test the playback and ensure the movies are running at the correct speed - don't just rely on the frame counter... check against a real-time source.

I would use the DVI-DA option rather than 2x Datapath X4 as will put less load on the system (and probably be a cheaper option)

However, the image rotation can be done in catalyst with the mix windows... you don't have to do this with the X4.

Whatever you do - TEST TEST TEST... MacPro 6,1 and mavericks are new technology and we are finding new idiosyncrasies every day!...

5th Element
02-05-2014, 05:20 PM
OK thanks for getting back to me,
The active Dual Link adapters, can I use the apple one that is bus powered? Or should I get something that has an actual AC adapter to it?

I am not as concerned about real time clock as it is just loops for an install, I just need to make sure all 3 screens are in sync as they will form a vertical panorama so to speak. Sync IDs should be fine internally I would hope.

In your experience, in terms of performance load on the machine, does it make more sense to play back 1 x 4k file and just split it up with offsets in the mix windows or play back 4 x 1080? I have never been able to actually try this side by side and see yet, just curious

I think just because I want to use less layers I will do 1 x 4k and split it up....

Mr_P
02-05-2014, 06:19 PM
OK thanks for getting back to me,
The active Dual Link adapters, can I use the apple one that is bus powered?

use the apple MDP to Dual-Link adaptor which is USB powered


I am not as concerned about real time clock as it is just loops for an install,

YES YOU DO NEED TO ME CONCERNED!!... what I meant was that you need to ensure that the content is playing back correctly and check the expected length against a 'real-world' clock to ensure that it is not playing slow.
Or it may look glitchy and suttery if you are over-driving the system...
You should be especially concerned if you were considering syncing 3 different layers - how would you guarantee they were in sync and not skipping frames???


I just need to make sure all 3 screens are in
sync as they will form a vertical panorama so to speak.

a single layer running 1 video file assigned to 3 mixes will work.
The image in the 3 mixes need to be rotated, offset.
The mixes then need to be positined to lineup with the X4 window settings.


Sync IDs should be fine internally I would hope.
wrong aproach... (see above)


In your experience, in terms of performance load on the machine, does it make more sense to play back 1 x 4k file and just split it up with offsets in the mix windows

yes
but 4K not required
3x 1920x1080 vertical screens = 3240x1920


or play back 4 x 1080? I have never been able to actually try this side by side and see yet, just curious

possible - but no point if you use the mix window approach...

S

5th Element
02-05-2014, 07:06 PM
OK cool,
Thanks for all the help Simon,

Yes I suppose I do not need a 4k, since I can do 1920 as a height, good call...

For the sake of argument though, if I had 3240 x 1920 or three 1920x1080 files playing, which do you think would be more efficient on the system?
I tend to think more smaller files, but I have no basis for this assumption other than I feel like larger files tend to just not be handled well by anything.

5th Element
02-05-2014, 07:25 PM
Also there are so many options for the Mac Pro, what options should I be looking for to do this kind of setup with 1 output to an x4, doing 3240 x 1080?
I am trying to quote this out and I don't really have access to many models to find the best one for the job at the moment.

Mr_P
02-05-2014, 08:18 PM
For the sake of argument though, if I had 3240 x 1920 or three 1920x1080 files playing, which do you think would be more efficient on the system?
I tend to think more smaller files, but I have no basis for this assumption other than I feel like larger files tend to just not be handled well by anything.

Either option will work - but your workflow will be easier with a single file.
bear in mind that it doesnt have to be exactly the same pixel size... it could be smaller so long as its the same ratio (and an even number)
Just watch the data rate on a single large file.
Only way to find out is to TEST.



Also there are so many options for the Mac Pro, what options should I be looking for to do this kind of setup with 1 output to an x4, doing 3240 x 1080?
I am trying to quote this out and I don't really have access to many models to find the best one for the job at the moment.

Base spec should do it fine...
or if you have the budget, the base spec with the top spec graphics card.

Try and borrow one to test first if you're worried...
Don't rely on other peoples test results.

S

DuckEater
08-05-2014, 02:24 PM
Hi,

I tried this m466 on a retina macbook over ML (Mac OS 10.8.6),
with a thunderbolt to Ethernet adaptor,
I got a recurring "Network output error -1" like if it doesn't recognize the Ethernet port.
The rest seemed to work pretty well.

Exact same setup on m364 worked like a charm, including ArtNET input/output.
Is this m466 release supposed to be compatible with 10.8 ?

I will try next week the same setup on 10.9 and I'll tell you.

5th Element
09-05-2014, 03:41 AM
No, m466 is mavericks only to my knowledge, network library or something is different. So 364 will give you that same error on mavericks and vice versa.

Mr_P
09-05-2014, 09:45 AM
Hi,
I tried this m466 on a retina macbook over ML (Mac OS 10.8.6),
with a thunderbolt to Ethernet adaptor,
I got a recurring "Network output error -1" like if it doesn't recognize the Ethernet port. - ie whatever adaptor
The rest seemed to work pretty well.

Exact same setup on m364 worked like a charm, including ArtNET input/output.

Ignore that...
Network / Artnet connectivity should still work. However, due to the network library changes, The Catalyst Control window only shows information for network port en0 (compared to any versions prior to m466)

en0 is the first physical network port on a Mac. However, this varies depending on the Mac hardware (MacBook / Mac-Mini / MacPro)
On a MacBook, en0 is the wi-fi adaptor
on a Mac-Mini and MacPro its the Rj45 port

If you are using a Thunderbolt-ethernet or USB to Ethernet adaptor, it will probably appear as en1 on a MacBook

However - the port id doesn't matter - so long as the IP address and Subnet are valid, it should work fine for both Artnet input and output.


Is this m466 release supposed to be compatible with 10.8 ?

I will try next week the same setup on 10.9 and I'll tell you.

m466 works fine in both instances on MacPro 5,1 OS 10.6.8 / 10.8.5 / 10.9.2
and MacPro 6,1 OS 10.9.2


No, m466 is mavericks only to my knowledge, network library or something is different. So 364 will give you that same error on mavericks and vice versa.

Not vice-versa:
m364 will not work in Mavericks OS 10.9.x
Only m466 will work in Mavericks OS 10.9.x
m466 will also work in OS 10.6.8 / 10.8.5

Simon

Oscar Jimenez Casabella
16-06-2014, 03:18 PM
The second time I can't update Text at inbuilt web server in visual fx nº 97, it says: Safari can't open the web.
And too it insert "textMUnumber=" in all texts.
It isn't only my problem ¿¿¿???
Thanks!!!

samsc
17-06-2014, 11:21 AM
The second time I can't update Text at inbuilt web server in visual fx nº 97, it says: Safari can't open the web.
And too it insert "textMUnumber=" in all texts.
It isn't only my problem ¿¿¿???
Thanks!!!

thanks - looks like safari has changed the way it handles form inputs

Oscar Jimenez Casabella
18-06-2014, 10:50 AM
thanks - looks like safari has changed the way it handles form inputs
Ok!, I will be waiting for it impatiently :-))
Thanks!!!

Oscar Jimenez Casabella
03-07-2014, 11:18 PM
Any solution???
Thanks!!!

escueto
03-07-2014, 11:51 PM
Hola Oscar.
Te dejé un mensaje.

Oscar Jimenez Casabella
08-07-2014, 10:45 PM
Perdona por la demora en contestarte ESCUETO, saludos...

jdbclt
31-07-2014, 10:36 PM
An issue that I have since Mavericks/m466:
MacMini - Current Model
SSD drive for content
HDD for System
Clips will play fine and then at about every 30 seconds they will freeze for a frame or two.
It is not at the loop point and it does not seem to be clip related. Several different clips have this happen.

When this happens, I notice that in the Stats window MVC spikes momentarily and then drops back down.

I did not see this on a previous MacMini with OSX 10.8 (same specs).

RyWolf
14-08-2014, 03:18 AM
Os 10.9.4
Apple Intermediate codec. there is audio and video. I can start playing the file fine and fade it in without any glitches but when trying to stop it with either changing the play mode or using a Int>0 mode and fading down; I get a glitch for a second on my other layers that are up when that layer with audio stops.

My 10.8 machine with the same content does not have this issue.

NevBull
10-09-2014, 10:32 PM
Thats because Exact Map is a v5 only function of Catalyst. It was only in v4 for testing purposes or in custom builds.

Nev.

DuckEater
10-03-2015, 07:33 PM
Hello,

It seems you made a little change on how the timecode offset is read from the Out-Frame field.

On Catalyst m466 (and v5, but not in m364) :
using the play-mode 25~28 (Sync to SMPTE),
if the In-frame is =0
and the Out-frame is >0
the layer will output black as soon as timecode rolls.

If the In-frame is >0, the Out-frame works (as a negative offset).

The out-frame can be higher than the in-frame, as soon as the in-frame ≠0.
The In-frame works fine with Out-frame=0.


Is there a reason for that ?
In m364, out-frame worked well with in-frame=0.

samsc
10-03-2015, 09:06 PM
are you saying what you see when:
inframe=0 and outframe > 0
is different between these version?

what you say worked well in m364?

DuckEater
11-03-2015, 08:23 AM
are you saying what you see when:
inframe=0 and outframe > 0
is different between these version?

what you say worked well in m364?

That's what I say : it works on m364 and older (picture displayed), it doesn't work on m466 and newer (nothing displayed).

samsc
11-03-2015, 09:05 PM
thats not what i see -
please supply more details of timecode range you using
and smpte options - looping? screen capture of smpte settings would be useful

you have black frames at start and end of movie?

-

there are a lot of changes between m364 - and m466 - but nothing that stops it working-

DuckEater
05-03-2016, 04:55 PM
Sorry I was long to send the screens, but here they are !

I was using 25fps @44.1kHz timecode. It worked well in m364 and has an issue on m464
(same show, same computer, same audio card, same timecode source, etc.)

inframe=0 and outframe > 0 : media is not played on Catalyst m464
849

inframe > 0 and outframe > 0 : media is played well on Catalyst m464
850