ArtNet!!!... A question for developers!!!...

[Sergey]

My friend said that he could write a program that will send the value of ArtNet channel on the Catalyst of the media player! Catalyst as we have patched the "Preset Trigger 1-1ch"! In the media player it will add a column "id" in which we enter from 1 to 255 and media player will send these values ​​to ArtNet on the Catalyst to the channel that is responsible for switching presets! So we want to realize synchronization with PC audio and video from Catalyst!

The question to developers: We will implement this idea?

[Mr_P]

why not just use SMPTE or MIDI timecode to syncronise playback between the PC and Mac?

or just embed the audio in to the catalyst video and allow catalyst to playback both...?

S

[Sergey]

why not just use SMPTE or MIDI timecode to syncronise playback between the PC and Mac?

or just embed the audio in to the catalyst video and allow catalyst to playback both...?


I do not have MTC generator! And if I know how to do it for midi in Catalyst, then the PC I do not know what should be the program! But in general I think that if you implement my idea, it will be much easier and faster than controlling and configured!

[Mr_P]

MIDI timecode generator is built in to catalyst


Why do you have to run sound from PC?

You could embed SMPTE timecode in one of the audio tracks on the PC and then use it to sync playback on catalyst

Don't really understand your artnet idea - but it is already possible to trigger presets from DMX/Artnnet input and also possible to output DMX/Artnet using pixelmad...

s

[Mr_P]

If I understand you correctly - Do you want to output a DMX channel at a particular level over artnet for each preset that is played?

You can do this using PixelMad

Use 1 layer with a white square (lib0 file 0 or 4) and send it to a very small mix window on output 1
Then patch one pixel intensity in pixelmad that maps over the top of the very small mix window with the white square
As you adjust the intensity level of the layer with the white square, this will change the DMX output level from 0-255

You can program this in with each preset to give a different level for each preset that is played.

S

[Sergey]

MIDI timecode generator is built in to catalyst


Why do you have to run sound from PC?

You could embed SMPTE timecode in one of the audio tracks on the PC and then use it to sync playback on catalyst

Don't really understand your artnet idea - but it is already possible to trigger presets from DMX/Artnnet input and also possible to output DMX/Artnet using pixelmad...


This is a live concert, every concert arrangement of the songs in the playlist is changed before the concert and during the concert! Artist gives the legend and includes phonogram soundman, soundman interpretation knows when and what kind of phonograms include a voice or not! For him, writing was a special program playing Phonograms! Therefore, the phonogram shall run with the PC! All tracks are 100% must be synchronized with the video! So I came up with a system that will send a signal to ArtNet Catalyst and Catalyst will run the desired preset!

I do not know what the program should be on the PC which would send a signal to the MTC Catalyst! Maybe someone can tell how it should be correctly implemented! Where can I read about it? Or what programs you can use, or any external device to use? Help please!

Sorry for bad English! )

[Sergey]

Here are found the program QLab (http://figure53.com/qlab/)! It will help me?

[Mr_P]

I came up with a system that will send a signal to ArtNet Catalyst and Catalyst will run the desired preset!

Then all you have to do is patch in 'preset trigger' to catalyst

If you want the sound and video to be exactly in sync frame by frame you MUST use either MIDI or SMPTE timecode... theres no other way of doing it.

You must get the soundman to output MIDI or SMPTE timecode when he plays the relevant tracks. This will then make the sound sync with the video.


I do not know what the program should be on the PC which would send a signal to the MTC Catalyst!

This is usually built in to many sound replay programs - so it depends what your soundman is using...

If the soundman cannot output MIDI or SMPTE - then you cant sync the sound and video - and will have to rely on JUST a start trigger from artnet/DMX

Qlab won't help you...

S

[Sergey]

well, if someone could tell me what program to use it to connect and what's what, and how it all set up? it is desirable that the program was for MAC! always write what you can do so through the SMPTE timecode but did not write exactly how to do it! Does not anybody that does not enjoy that so little information about it?

[Sergey]

Qlab won't help you...

S

Why QLab not fit? http://i29.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0302/f3/ce3a96c4938b26dc27225dea049369f3.png Is this nothing at all will not be able to sync Catalyst?

[Mr_P]

You really have to learn about some of this stuff to understand and make it work... there is a limit to how much information and help can be offered without knowing more about your setup and systems...
- what is the PC sound playback system?
- what is your artnet program?
- how do the two interact (work together?)

We can't program your show and setup your kit over the forum! - only suggest methods of achieving a result - its down to you to understand the technology and apply the knowledge and use your skills.

If you don't have the knowledge and skills - you must find and employ someone who does!! - There are many users out there who can do this on a regular basis and earn a living from it.

Most of us on the forum can offer help and support about CATALYST software - and some of the peripherals commonly used - but be realistic - we cant setup your whole show blind over the forum!...

Where are you based and when is your show?

S

[Mr_P]

There are a number of ways you can do this

Using a separate SMPTE generator might complicate the nature of the changing playback
I don't think Qlab will help you - and catalyst can do most of what Qlab can do and more...
Qlab or Catalyst is not the problem - we need to figure out more about the Sound PC software capabilities

However, as you mentioned:


the songs in the playlist is changed before the concert and during the concert! - Therefore, the phonogram shall run with the PC!

Therefore I would suggest that you should get unique SMPTE timecode edited in to each of the sound tracks
This will enable the relevant video to playback at the correct time and in sync.
ie while the sound track plays, it also plays SMPTE timecode on another channel and catalyst can listen to the SMPTE timecode to sync the video.

One way to do this is:
Conect the SMPTE timecode output from the PC (audio cable) to the line input of the Mac (3.5mm jack) - SMPTE is just a sound signal.
Lets assume that the timebase is 25fps (just change the arithmetic if its 30fps)

Go to system preferences on the catalyst Mac and ensure that the audio input is set to line-in
Go to the catalyst input/sound HUD and turn on sound and SMPTE

Lets say that song 1 starts at timecode 01:00:05:00 (which is what needs to be striped on to the sound track)
Lets say that preset 1 is the video for song 1

I will assume that you know how to program presets in catalyst.
record a preset with the video for song 1 and set the playmode to SMPTE L and set the inframe to 125 (25fps x 5s = 125 frames) or (30pfs x 5s = 150frames)

Setup a cuelist in catalyst, set the clock source to SMPTE L
insert preset 1 (song 1) and set the time for the cue to 01:00:05:00
Ensure that the PLAY button is selected on the cuelist

When the SMPTE timecode gets to 01:00:05:00 the preset will run and the video will start from the first frame and sync to the SMPTE timecode.

You may need to put a fade out preset at the end (or just before the end) of the song and whatever timecode that happens.

THEN:
Lets say that song 2 starts at timecode 02:00:05:00
Lets say that preset 2 is the video for song 2

You would repeat the process for song 2
and so on...

Note that the timecode starts at 5seconds - this allows for some pre-roll before the cue actually happens and allows both systems to be in-sync before you hear the sound and see the video.

Sync can be adjusted by changing the inframe value of each preset
Bear in mind that the cuelist time is independent of the preset inframe
The hour is ignored when using inframe, but not in the cuelist.

By using SMPTE timecode cuelist to trigger the preset - you dont need to use DMX/Artnet preset triggers...

Without actually being onsite programming your show and connecting cables - this is about as much free support as I can offer...

Hope it helps

S

[Sergey]

Most of us on the forum can offer help and support about CATALYST software - and some of the peripherals commonly used - but be realistic - we cant setup your whole show blind over the forum!...


Ok, I'm sorry! Then a question about Catalyst: Why in the cue list "Clock: internal" and "Clock: internal-relative" presets run in mode "Clock: Midi Time Code 1" is not run? In the "Clock: internal-relative" and "Clock: Midi Time Code 1" is the right time, but the presets are triggered only in the "Clock: internal-relative"? The manual does not describe, it just says that you can choose different modes!



Where are you based and when is your show?


I am in Moscow, and shows March 10, 2012!

[Sergey]

You really have to learn about some of this stuff to understand and make it work... there is a limit to how much information and help can be offered without knowing more about your setup and systems...
- what is the PC sound playback system?
- what is your artnet program?
- how do the two interact (work together?)

We can't program your show and setup your kit over the forum! - only suggest methods of achieving a result - its down to you to understand the technology and apply the knowledge and use your skills.

If you don't have the knowledge and skills - you must find and employ someone who does!! - There are many users out there who can do this on a regular basis and earn a living from it.

Most of us on the forum can offer help and support about CATALYST software - and some of the peripherals commonly used - but be realistic - we cant setup your whole show blind over the forum!...

Where are you based and when is your show?

S


And you understand me: buying a dongle for a few thousand euros would like to know and believe that this product is worth the money, and at that moment when I need help I can seek it to the professionals and they will help, or he read it in the manual, but when something is not in the manual start looking for an answer on the internet and can not find anything, Then ask the question on the forum where I meet the "use sync ..." and how it works and how to configure it is not written anywhere and no one wants to say no, that is, I need to buy a pair of external devices and try yourself, and then throw them away realizing that this is not something that I fondly look back and then all of the Internet and then again to buy and try?? I thought that technical support is a support and not to the ignorant people who earn money! I do not blame that Catalyst does not support the playback of audio files, and that there is no simple external audio player that is easily synchronized to the network to another Catalyst and all it would be convenient!
Thank you very much for the detailed description! If I have questions I can for you bridle? Or should I look for people who earn money from it? I'm sorry to put it crudely

[IanH]

Sergey

just to comment on some items in your post..

Catalyst does Play back Audio files ... Catalyst also can lock to Midi and Time code...Its very flexible.

Catalyst is in daily on literally hundreds of productions - each is totally unique in configeration and execution..... The forum is read by Catalyst Techs and resellers from around the world but.... you need to be able to discribe your requirment better so that posters can better help you...

Ian --- Sitting watching a Catalyst during TV rehearsals in Dublin

[Mr_P]

Then a question about Catalyst: Why in the cue list "Clock: internal" and "Clock: internal-relative" presets run in mode "Clock: Midi Time Code 1" is not run? In the "Clock: internal-relative" and "Clock: Midi Time Code 1" is the right time, but the presets are triggered only in the "Clock: internal-relative"?

Internal / SMPTE / MIDI timecode cuelists all work in the same way - the only difference is the clock source. ie: Internal / SMPTE / MIDI
So when the timecode runs, the cues will trigger when the timecode hits the same time as the cue is programmed.

Internal timecode allows you to generate timecode to run the cuelist.

Internal-relative uses the same internal timecode, but the cues behave slightly differntly - more like a cuestack on a lighting console. i.e you would press GO to advance to the next cue.

Most cues in an 'internal-relative' cuelist might be set to pause/wait - so that you can advance to the next cue using the space bar or play button.
A follow on cue would be given a wait time to automatically follwo the previous cue - (see picture example)
-press space to run cue 1
-press space to run cue 2
-the 3rd cue runs automatically 5s after q2
-press space to run cue 4
-press space to run fade at end


If you dont see the clock run for "Clock: Midi Time Code 1"
Check that your MIDI device drivers are correctly installed and that you have selected the correct external MIDI device at the bottom of the Catalyst Control window.

With reference to manuals etc - the built-in manual is out-of date. You need to discuss this with the software developer.
However the cuelist secion hasn't changed for a few years - so should be accurate.
There is a slightly more up-to-date online manual.
take a look at:
https://sites.google.com/a/samsc.com/catalyst/home

its less out of date - Some features have been updated
But it should cover enough of the basics, until you figure out that you don't really need a manual...

As you are based in Moscow, you should contact:
Ivan Rumyantsev
ivanr@sim.ru

I believe that he has a Russian manual available and should be able to offer local support.

S

[Mr_P]

And you understand me: buying a dongle for a few thousand euros would like to know and believe that this product is worth the money, and at that moment when I need help I can seek it to the professionals and they will help, or he read it in the manual, but when something is not in the manual start looking for an answer on the internet and can not find anything, Then ask the question on the forum where I meet the "use sync ..." and how it works and how to configure it is not written anywhere

Part of the problem here was trying to understand what you wanted to do... I think now that we understand - we can help to point you in the right direction.
We are all here to help - but there are limits to what can be done over the internet on a user forum.


and no one wants to say no, that is, I need to buy a pair of external devices and try yourself, and then throw them away realizing that this is not something that I fondly look back and then all of the Internet and then again to buy and try??

The problem is that if someone here says - 'go buy xyz device' then you put it on a gig and it fails and then you gig fails catastrophically - who are you going to turn round to and try to blame?
... its going to be us!

So you will never find anyone willing to 100% commit themselves to a recommendation - they will only make a suggestion and say that you should test it.

There are 1000's of servers around the world running different versions of the software all with different configurations and OS and devices and drivers - connected to all sorts of external kit. There is no way of knowing whether a suggested external device will work with your configuration compared to someone elses... There are too many factors to consider.

Those of us who do offer suggestions, have probably thoroughly tested them and done the research, so are confident of any results.
BUT YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO TEST STUFF YOURSELF
Many manufacturers will lend equipment for this purpose - why should I spend my money testing a bit of kit on your behalf?
That said - we do spend money on testing the most common equipment that users may find useful.




I thought that technical support is a support and not to the ignorant people who earn money!

I do this for FREE -
you are lucky that I even tried to understand what you were trying to achieve... I have spent about 4 hours on this post in total over a weekend with my family. Now that my children have gone to bed I am still trying to answer your queries... Many wouldn't bother! and if that's your attitude - I'm not surprised that I'm the only person who answered you. (except Ian ;) )



I do not blame that Catalyst does not support the playback of audio files, and that there is no simple external audio player that is easily synchronized to the network to another Catalyst and all it would be convenient!

As Ian mentioned above - Catalyst DOES playback audio files - you need to use playmode 70-75. So long as you have the system preferences audio correctly configures - it will output if the movie has sound.

Catalyst can also frame syncronise playback across a network to as many catalyst servers that are connected. This would include audio playback, but there is usually little requirement to syncronise audio playback between servers...



Thank you very much for the detailed description! If I have questions I can for you bridle? Or should I look for people who earn money from it? I'm sorry to put it crudely

I would suggest that you try and book on to a Catalyst training course which will teach you how to use the system and show you many features that you may wish to use.

For a beginner - it can be difficult to understand all the concepts at the very start. Training will help as will experience.

Please feel free to contact me if you need further support

regards

Simon

[Mr_P]

P.S.

Dont forget to ensure that you have a dongle and driver installed before starting to work on a cuelist - if you insert it after starting catalyst, you may not be able to save your cuelist

Dont forget to save your cuelist using the "Show Control/Save" menu, since it gets saved separately from the "save ALL preferences now' menu item

S

[Sergey]

If you dont see the clock run for "Clock: Midi Time Code 1"
Check that your MIDI device drivers are correctly installed and that you have selected the correct external MIDI device at the bottom of the Catalyst Control window.


No, you do not understand me! time is correct but the presets do not run! Why not?
http://s1.ipicture.ru/uploads/20120304/B8KiQVrt.png

[Mr_P]

I notice that your MIDI timecode is 30fps - so you should set your Cuelist time to 30fps - not25fps

If you want the cue to run at 00:02:30:10, then you must set the cue time to the same 00:02:30:10

You should put a blank cue at the end of the list at 24:00:00:00 (or greater than your largest timecode)
This will ensure that the cuelist never hits the end and stops. - it is possible that this is what is happening to you...
Since your timecode may be changing depending upon the song, this will help to ensure that the list does not get stopped and remains in 'play' mode.
Ensure that the 'stop after last cue' option is NOT enabled...

It may also be worth adding a 'reset black' cue at 00:00:00:00 - so if you reset the timecode during rehearsals, this will reset the layers before the correct cue is triggered.

During rehearsal, if you reset your timecode back to 00:00:00:00 you may need to click the 'back arrow' (to the left of the stop button)

See attached screenshot showing a MIDI cuelist as described.
No matter what the incoming timecode - it always jumps to the correct cue

Let me know if this helps

S

[Sergey]

There are a number of ways you can do this
Sync can be adjusted by changing the inframe value of each preset
Bear in mind that the cuelist time is independent of the preset inframe
The hour is ignored when using inframe, but not in the cuelist.



why, when the time is in SMPTE 00:35:04:08 inFarame shows in 1289? but when I thought there must be 52,608?

properties file:
Playback Mode: 25-sync to SMPTE L
In Frame 7500
Out Frame 0
duration of tracks 6260

[Mr_P]

Using playmode 'Sync to SMPTE L'
If you want your video clip to sync to 00:35:04:08 then you must set the inframe value to:

@25fps: 52608 (frames)
or
@30fps: 63128 (frames)

this will play the first frame of the movie at the timecode you specified


Please note - currently inframe and outframe values are 16bit.
This means that timecode sync can only achieved up to 65536 frames:
00:43:41:11 @25fps
00:36:24:16 @30fps

HOWEVER:
If you need to sync beyond these values, then you must use another (better/newer) sync method and catalyst version m364
NOTE - this only works for SMPTE timecode - not MIDI timecode...

1) Open Library/Files HUD
Each clip has a TC entry under the Lib and File lines.
2) Set the timecode of the clip as required (your example = 00:35:04:08)
3) Set the playmode to 27 'Sync to SMPTE L - autoload timecode offset'
4) Set the inframe and outframe zero (0)
(unless you need to adjust the sync either forwards or backwards slightly...)

you will see the clip playback when the SMPTE timecode reaches the programmed time.

The attached picture shows the SMPTE timecode at 00:47:19:20 (@25fps)
The file (lib0 file15) TC has been set to 00:47:10:00
Layer 1 is playing the file using playmode 27 'Sync to SMPTE L - autoload timecode offset'
The movie started playing at 00:47:10:00 and the current frame is 246 (ie 9s20f @25fps)


NOTE
This method is especially useful for completely timecode shows where video content creators use the Bands' audio tracks to create their compositions. Designers can export their content directly from FCP or AE with the timeline timecode, which should match the Bands' audio playback timecode.

This makes the whole process of syncing content to timecode much easier and avoids the previous 43min and 36min limits.


Hope this helps

S