Mac Mini Server, poor performance

[MattMills]

Hello everyone, wondering if someone might tell me something I may have missed. I am building a portable Catalyst system for the upcoming festivals and I have purchased a new Mac Mini Server. I tried it out with the original 2X500 gig drives and the performance was not so good. Yesterday I installed a OCZ Vertex 60 gig drive and unfortunately it did not improve much more. I read somewhere that I should run it in 32 bit mode so I held down the 3 and 2 at startup until it finished booting, Im hoping that did the trick. Anyone have any suggestions on what i may have missed or what I may want to do to try and get more performance out of this machine? Were pretty close to being where we need to be, but it is obvious its not there yet. Heres the info.....

New Mac Mini Server
Running Snow Leopard Server
Catalyst 257
Outputting 1024 by 768 via mini port to VGA into Imagepro
Run off Grand MA 1

All content is SD but each piece of content is an entire song, thats the way it was made so Im dealing with it. What I do to ensure everything hits its marks is while one is playing in the verse, I have a second layer scrubbed forward to the chorus, then I bring that layer up for the chorus and advance the other layer to setup for the next cue. I think you get what Im saying.

Any help and suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks, Matt

[basicmonkey]

Hi Matt,

First thing, get OS X server off and do a fresh restore from a Mac Mini disk. I couldn't get server to do anything useful, not designed for graphics use.

Make sure you use a Mac Mini restore disk not just Snow Leopard or you won't get use of your ethernet port.

Cheers

[MattMills]

Thanks, ill try that. Wont be able to do it until I get home May 8th. I have an older Mac Mini that I use for a home computer. Hopefully that will work. Hopefully I can find the disks. Im really hoping to get this thing to work out for the festivals. We arent closing all of the ones were playing so I will have to get the hell out of there during set changes.

[MattMills]

Ok, noticed something tonight when I was running the show. When I have it hooked up to the monitor, it plays back perfect, hook it to the LED wall, then It drops frames.

Im doing testing with the Mac Mini Server, my Mac Pro is actually running the show. I was testing the Mini Server during the day before doors, then switched back over.

Any idea whats up with that? I know both times the Mini Server was outputting 1024-768.

[samsc]

Hi Matt,

First thing, get OS X server off and do a fresh restore from a Mac Mini disk. I couldn't get server to do anything useful, not designed for graphics use.

Make sure you use a Mac Mini restore disk not just Snow Leopard or you won't get use of your ethernet port.

Cheers

not true- there isnt any difference at all in performance between server and non-server os-

[samsc]

Ok, noticed something tonight when I was running the show. When I have it hooked up to the monitor, it plays back perfect, hook it to the LED wall, then It drops frames.

Im doing testing with the Mac Mini Server, my Mac Pro is actually running the show. I was testing the Mini Server during the day before doors, then switched back over.

Any idea whats up with that? I know both times the Mini Server was outputting 1024-768.

you using 2 outputs?
they dont like doing 2 outputs-

[Mr_P]

Ok, noticed something tonight when I was running the show. When I have it hooked up to the monitor, it plays back perfect, hook it to the LED wall, then It drops frames.

Im doing testing with the Mac Mini Server, my Mac Pro is actually running the show. I was testing the Mini Server during the day before doors, then switched back over.

Any idea whats up with that? I know both times the Mini Server was outputting 1024-768.

Check the refresh rates of your content and LCD and LED screen...
You may find that there is a difference between LCD and LED which may lead to a mismatch and dropped frames

What rate is your content?
What rate is your LED screen
What rate is catalyst set to?

S

[MattMills]

you using 2 outputs?
they dont like doing 2 outputs-

Not doing 2 outputs. Before door had the mini hooked up to the wall for testing, once doors were opened I hooked my Mac Pro back to the wall and my Mini back to its monitor.

[Mr_P]

Hi Matt,

First thing, get OS X server off and do a fresh restore from a Mac Mini disk. I couldn't get server to do anything useful, not designed for graphics use.

Make sure you use a Mac Mini restore disk not just Snow Leopard or you won't get use of your ethernet port.

Cheers

I use a disk image created from a Snow Leopard DVD (not restore DVD)
Never had an issue with losing an ethernet port...

Easiest way to install OS on a server without a DVD drive is to make it a firewire drive (hold T at startup) and connect to another mac to install the OS on the drive...

S

[MattMills]

Check the refresh rates of your content and LCD and LED screen...
You may find that there is a difference between LCD and LED which may lead to a mismatch and dropped frames

What rate is your content?
What rate is your LED screen
What rate is catalyst set to?

S

All are set at 1024-768-60

[Mr_P]

Did you close catalyst between disconnecting screens /re-connecting screens?

Are you running via a DA or direct out of the graphics card?

If swapping screens and graphics card connections - you need to close catalyst and let the OS do its screen detect - then re-open catalyst...


S

[MattMills]

Did you close catalyst between disconnecting screens /re-connecting screens?

Are you running via a DA or direct out of the graphics card?

If swapping screens and graphics card connections - you need to close catalyst and let the OS do its screen detect - then re-open catalyst...


S

I was wondering about that. I had the monitor running, then unplugged it and plugged the wall in. That may be it. Ill try that at tomorrows show. Hopefully it will be that simple.

[Mr_P]

Don't change screens / resolutions or unplug anything while catalyst is running.

'may yield unexpected results'...

Always set up everything in the OS first - then start catalyst.

If you need to change screens - use a DVI detective or parrot to hold the EDID - so the mac doesn't see a change...

S

[MattMills]

UPDATE******

Today I set the Catalyst to boot at start up and go to full screen. Shut down, hooked it up to everything, rebooted, and all is great. Ran thru the entire 1 1/2 hour set. Rock solid. Thanks for all the help everyone. Here is my current set up on this Mini Rack...

Mac Mini Server (running Snow Leopard Server)
Catalyst 257
Out of mini port to mini to VGA adapter, from there, VGA in to Imagepro
Running 1024 by 768 60hz (this is what the video guys wanted so thats what I gave them)

Thanks again everyone. Matt

[basicmonkey]

not true- there isnt any difference at all in performance between server and non-server os-
This wasn't what I found on site with the Mac Mini Servers that XL have.

Using one output to drive a Triplehead, playing one wide layer over the three screens, I was unable to get a satisfactory result. Struggling to make 18-20 fps.

After re-imaging with Snow Leopard from fresh, I was able to get 25fps with no frame drops.

Following the install of Snow Leopard from a retail DVD, neither machine's ethernet port was available. I was informed by Apple that the relevant driver to support the port was only available on the restore disk.

Edit: Above show was using an Animation file, 3072px x 288px.

Only reflecting my own experiences with the machines.

[samsc]

This is things apple missed - in releases to support these machines

There isn't any difference in graphics drivers or performance or QuickTime or anything that matters between server and non server machines - nothing

unless apple got some drivers wrong
Which they did
The mac mini server was released mid os updates
And some things got missed by them


This wasn't what I found on site with the Mac Mini Servers that XL have.

Using one output to drive a Triplehead, playing one wide layer over the three screens, I was unable to get a satisfactory result. Struggling to make 18-20 fps.

After re-imaging with Snow Leopard from fresh, I was able to get 25fps with no frame drops.

Following the install of Snow Leopard from a retail DVD, neither machine's ethernet port was available. I was informed by Apple that the relevant driver to support the port was only available on the restore disk.

Edit: Above show was using an Animation file, 3072px x 288px.

Only reflecting my own experiences with the machines.

[samsc]

Using one output to drive a Triplehead, playing one wide layer over the three screens, I was unable to get a satisfactory result. Struggling to make 18-20 fps.

After re-imaging with Snow Leopard from fresh, I was able to get 25fps with no frame drops.
Edit: Above show was using an Animation file, 3072px x 288px.



what resolution of triple heads?

how many monitors? which monitor port? hdmi or mini display port?

-

these things really dont like working at high resolution

any difference you indicate is extremely unlikely to be anything to do with server or non-server OS-

[samsc]

I was wondering about that. I had the monitor running, then unplugged it and plugged the wall in. That may be it. Ill try that at tomorrows show. Hopefully it will be that simple.

sounds like it-

[SourceChild]

Following the install of Snow Leopard from a retail DVD, neither machine's ethernet port was available.

The reason the Ethernet did not work is because your Snow Leopard Install DVD was older than 10.6.3. The Mac Mini was created after the release of 10.6.3 which is why the ethernet port did not work correctly.



I was informed by Apple that the relevant driver to support the port was only available on the restore disk.

Apple support is notorious for not indicating the true nature of the issue back to a user. The issue you had was that until the 10.6.3 update, OS X did not have a driver for the new hardware, ie 2010 Mac Mini. (Also note the same is true for the 2010 Mac Pro. However it is covered from 10.6.2).

If your install DVD is 10.6 then the solution is to clean install. Then copy the 10.6.x update to a USB or Firewire Drive and installed it manually. This will update the drivers and fix the connectivity issues with the Firewire, Bluetooth, Ethernet, and IR port.

A big thing that changed with the Mac Mini hardware was the SATA controller. Prior to 10.6.3 the Mac Mini SATA driver was for multi channel and unfortunately the new 2010 Mac Minis are single channel SATA.

This doesn't matter to most unless you try to create a RAID Stripe across the two internal drives hoping for a performance increase.

[basicmonkey]

The reason the Ethernet did not work is because your Snow Leopard Install DVD was older than 10.6.3. The Mac Mini was created after the release of 10.6.3 which is why the ethernet port did not work correctly.
That makes a lot of sense Todd. This was back in October 2010, in the middle of Canary Wharf, not much opportunity to play with updates, just needed thing thing running! Ended up using a USB ethernet adaptor as an interim fix.

[basicmonkey]

what resolution of triple heads?

how many monitors? which monitor port? hdmi or mini display port?

-

these things really dont like working at high resolution

any difference you indicate is extremely unlikely to be anything to do with server or non-server OS-
Only one output in use, Mini Display Port with Apple Dual Link DVI adaptor and Triplehead on. 3x 1024px x 768px @ 60hz.

The machine came with a fresh install of OS X Server on, I ran Catalyst and the content and results as above, unsatisfactory. Settings were as per usual, services turned off, spotlight off etc.. All from internal SSD.

After installing fresh OS X, all good, no problems at all.

Again, this was outside and we were in a hurry so little chance to experiment, and this was back in October last year.

[samsc]

Only one output in use, Mini Display Port with Apple Dual Link DVI adaptor and Triplehead on. 3x 1024px x 768px @ 60hz.

The machine came with a fresh install of OS X Server on, I ran Catalyst and the content and results as above, unsatisfactory. Settings were as per usual, services turned off, spotlight off etc.. All from internal SSD.

After installing fresh OS X, all good, no problems at all.

Again, this was outside and we were in a hurry so little chance to experiment, and this was back in October last year.


when apple released the mac mini servers - the os versions available at that time werent in sync with the hardware - so some drivers werent there if you swapped or changed things around

you have to be conservative in expecations off graphics performance on these things-

[SourceChild]

you have to be conservative in expecations off graphics performance on these things-

In agreement with Richard...

The graphics suck.

There is no graphics memory. The GPU is very small and very basic. It uses system memory and gains this system memory at the expense of the CPU performance. The CPU is also busy accessing the SATA controller so you'll also downgrade your playback performance.



Only one output in use, Mini Display Port with Apple Dual Link DVI adaptor and Triplehead on. 3x 1024px x 768px @ 60hz.

Triple head is a very very bad idea on a Mac Mini. Single output only 1920x1080 or smaller.

It is possible to crash Catalyst on a Mac Mini by overloading the video card with very high pixel resolution such as a TH2G. They system tries to buffer too much memory to a paging file and the system will lock.

This is rare but it has happened to me. (granted I obscenely overload things to test them)