video switcher control via catalyst

[Johnny]

Hi, I have a catalyst v4 with a Decklink image capture card. I'm looking to add a video switcher capable of handling at least 5 surveillance type cameras with a control via the catalyst. I found the Extron System 7SC switcher that has RS-232 control. What is the best switcher for catalyst control and how does it communicate?
Can I then take the output of the controlled switcher into the Decklink capture card?

thanks,
Johnny

[samsc]

i wrote software to work with a few video switchers.

there are a lot of these on the market - what is best depends entirely on your needs - they all use similar protocols - there isnt a 'best product'.

security cameras normally use a composite output- so you need a composite video switcher -and a composite input on the decklink card?
so you have these?

[Johnny]

Yes, I have the composite input on the decklink card.

thanks

[Johnny]

I read through the serial control section of the catalyst manual. Is this the route I should go?

thanks,
Johnny

[kiwi]

I read through the serial control section of the catalyst manual. Is this the route I should go?

thanks,
Johnny
Hi Johnny,
I've used the kramer switchers quite successfully in the past.
You control these using the video switcher section in the control window.
You need some type of serial output device -a Keyspan if you want it on USB or a netcom 111 if you need the you want to go down the IP road.

You need the appropriate serial cable to connect the switch to the output device -some require a null modem, some a straight cable it all depends on which hardware you're connecting to each other.

in catalyst assign the type of switcher and the output, then click on the destination buttons and assign an input to them. you can also now drag this into the cuelist by holding down alt (I think)

If you need anymore details or help give me a shout.

Paul

[SourceChild]

I read through the serial control section of the catalyst manual. Is this the route I should go?

Hey Johnny,

Serial is finicky because of the fact that there is no cable standard.
If you can get it working reliably in the shop, you're fine so long as you use the same cables and same configuration.
Juts don't expect to be able to change much on show site reliably unless you use cables and hardware you've already tested and know to work.
You'll end up shooting yourself in the foot if you try to change serial rates, sizes, etc. on show days in an attempt to resolve problems that are actually related to bad or incorrect cables.


(Please note edits in italics.)

[Mick Murray]

Hi,
I agree with Todd, we have a couple of Analog way smartfade units which have a pc based interface for configuring inputs and for switching, we tryed in vain to get the switcher to talk to a mac, we used a variety of usb / serial adaptors which work for other serial devices with macs without issue, we ended up having to use a pc to get the software config tool to work, never worked for us on a mac. Another way to go might be to get hold of one or more active silicon 4 input cards, i recently bought one and am really happy with the results, there is very minimal frame delay on input and you can preview each input by opening the inputs window in catalyst so you can see live what cameras have a decant picture.

[SourceChild]

Catalyst is an amazing tool in its ability to control serial. Since however serial connections and cables are not standardized, you can run into real trouble trying to figure out an error on site.
Unless you have reliable control software to test your serial connections, it is best just to leave serial to those who use it day in and day out. If you do decide to use serial, buy your cables and adaptors pre-made instead of making them yourself. Also make sure you have a hand full on null modems for each size you use. Also remember that a cable that changes from one size DB to another doesn't guarantee the pin configuration will be correct.

For a while I actually carried a little box with me that allowed me to switch serial pin-outs and DB sizes. I'll throw up a picture when I find it. Some serial software will actually allow you to change the pin-outs automatically. Catalyst as amazing as it is, doesn't really have a need for this so you'll have to find other tools to test with.


(Please note edits in italics)

[samsc]

Hi,
I agree with Todd, we have a couple of Analog way smartfade units which have a pc based interface for configuring inputs and for switching, we tryed in vain to get the switcher

its almost always the cables people get wrong.

its not mac vs pc. its not my software - its not even the serial data rates.

there is no universal standard for pinouts on rs232 cables and connectors.

its much older technology.

[samsc]

Unless you have reliable control software for your serial, it is best just to leave serial to those who use it day in and day out.

cables ... cables ... cables

its almost never a software problem - its the cables and connector pinouts people get wrong.

just because the plugs fit does not mean it will work.

[samsc]

Hey Johnny,

Serial is finicky. If you can get it working reliably in the shop, you're fine. Juts don't expect to be able to change much on show site. You'll end up shooting yourself in the foot if you try to change serial rates, sizes, etc. on show days.

you have to get it working on a site- with the cables you have-
rs232 is NOT electrically robust and electrically isolated - its suceptible to interference and grounding problems.
designed for small cable run in controlled environments.

almost always incorrect cables and incorrect pinouts -

you never change data rates.

[SourceChild]

its not mac vs pc.

Theoretically, it's actually easier to use serial on a PC because most PCs have serial ports already built in. This is a legacy feature of many PC boards.

Macs require USB to serial adaptors. When High End was shipping Catalyst, they included a few of these serial devices in each package. They worked okay but there are other choices out there as well.

...and yes, Catalyst runs serial very well.

[SourceChild]

you have to get it working on a site- with the cables you have-
rs232 is NOT electrically robust and electrically isolated - its suceptible to interference and grounding problems.
designed for small cable run in controlled environments.

almost always incorrect cables and incorrect pinouts -

you never change data rates.


I've modified my initial posts to be more informative and address these statements.

[samsc]

Theoretically, it's actually easier to use serial on a PC because most PCs have serial ports already built in. This is a legacy feature of many PC boards.

Macs require USB to serial adaptors. When High End was shipping Catalyst, they included a few of these serial devices in each package. They worked okay but there are other choices out there as well.

...and yes, Catalyst runs serial very well.


some of the hideous cable complexity is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rs232c#Pinouts_.28DTE_relative.29

the connector and pinout problem does not go away magically with pc's

its not the interfaces that go wrong - its the cables and pinouts.

there is no standardised male/female connector relationship- rs232 talks about DTE and DCE equipment which doesnt work with modern computers.

there are a whole bunch of hardware handshaking pins that may or may not need to be connected - or pulled up or pulled down - depending on the device itself.

every single device i had to use in the past used a different pinout or pinout combination.
you are lucky if your device just uses the receive and transmit pins -
but the receive and transmit pins can be wired with 2 different conventions depending on the device.

[samsc]

Theoretically, it's actually easier to use serial on a PC because most PCs have serial ports already built in. This is a legacy feature of many PC boards.


...its not the port that goes wrong...