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Mauricio Caicedo
04-09-2008, 05:33 PM
IĀ“ve had a problem with my matrox triple heads, I usually use two to output 6 screens, this usually works fine, a couple of months ago my computer didnĀ“t recognize one of them, that is the display options didnĀ“t list the "spanned" modes (2400x600, 3072x768, etc) but only listed 4:3 and 16:9 modes, the other screen was detected by the computer without problem, so I was able to use only four screens, my show required six so I did everything to fix it, restart, shut down and power on, booting the computer erasing PRAM, nothing worked, I ended up using my secondary system which is exactly the same as the primary, a couple of days after that, I booted up the computer and "voila" it detected the screens perfectly, I can only conclude it fixed itself, because I didnĀ“t do anything special to it.

Two days ago, same thing happened, it hasnĀ“t fixed itself yet.

What to do????
anyone with this same problem??

thanx

OlliR
04-09-2008, 07:16 PM
With X1900 you can only output 6 Screens in a resolution of 800 x 600
So if you select 3072x768 on the first TH2G the other TH2G wonĀ“t be able to output a triple screen because it exceeds the "canvas" of the graphics card.

A good help when having problems with TH2Gs is to disconnect the MacPro from the mains and not only put it in shutdown for a reset - that helped me in situations where I thought the TH2G was gone for good...

It also is a good idea to do the setuo with 2 TH2Gs with a second computer via remote desktop or screensharing... - makes life so much easier...

samsc
05-09-2008, 02:17 PM
IĀ“ve had a problem with my matrox triple heads, I usually use two to output 6 screens, this usually works fine, a couple of months ago my computer didnĀ“t recognize one of them, that is the display options didnĀ“t list the "spanned" modes (2400x600, 3072x768, etc) but only listed 4:3 and 16:9 modes, the other screen was detected by the computer without problem, so I was able to use only four screens, my show required six so I did everything to fix it, restart, shut down and power on, booting the computer erasing PRAM, nothing worked, I ended up using my secondary system which is exactly the same as the primary, a couple of days after that, I booted up the computer and "voila" it detected the screens perfectly, I can only conclude it fixed itself, because I didnĀ“t do anything special to it.

Two days ago, same thing happened, it hasnĀ“t fixed itself yet.

What to do????
anyone with this same problem??

thanx

its possible that an apple operation system update might have changed or altered supported resolutions -

i cannot get 6 outputs from my triple heads on leopard.

---

basically there is nothing i can do about any of this - if it works - it works - if its doesnt then the graphics card and driver dont like it.

SourceChild
19-09-2008, 09:22 AM
its possible that an apple operation system update might have changed or altered supported resolutions -

i cannot get 6 outputs from my triple heads on leopard.


Right after Apple released the graphics update, I was able to hack a core graphics library to make two TH2G devices work. It ran 6x1024x768 but was useless for anything else but Catalyst. I finally re-imaged the disk as it was nothing more than an experiment that had no promising results.

Incidentally, the core video and core graphics will work just fine. The problem has to do with limitations in the way Quartz renders on the specific GPU. This is something rumored to be fixed (accounted for actually) with the release of snow leopard.

samsc
23-09-2008, 04:22 PM
Right after Apple released the graphics update, I was able to hack a core graphics library to make two TH2G devices work. It ran 6x1024x768 but was useless for anything else but Catalyst. I finally re-imaged the disk as it was nothing more than an experiment that had no promising results.


dear jesus.... please no hacking .... please...

emilianomorgia
23-09-2008, 05:42 PM
Work here :

Hardware:

Hardware Overview:

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro1,1
Processor Name: Dual-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2.66 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per processor): 4 MB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 1.33 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MP11.005C.B08
SMC Version: 1.7f10
Serial Number: CK7100RYUPZ


Graphics/Displays:

ATI Radeon X1900 XT:

Chipset Model: ATY,RadeonX1900
Type: Display
Bus: PCIe
Slot: Slot-1
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 512 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x7249
Revision ID: 0x0000
ROM Revision: 113-A52027-202
EFI Driver Version: 01.00.202
Displays:
Display:
Resolution: 2400 x 600 @ 60 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported
Display:
Resolution: 2400 x 600 @ 60 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported

Software:

System Software Overview:

System Version: Mac OS X 10.5.5 (9F33)
Kernel Version: Darwin 9.5.0
Boot Volume: Cat Os
Boot Mode: Normal
Computer Name: Catalyst01
User Name: Catalyst 01 (catalyst01)
Time since boot: 15 minutes

samsc
23-09-2008, 05:50 PM
yes - it normally works at 2400x600- 60HZ-

it doesnt seem to work at 1024x768 - 75Hz-

there didnt seem to be a way to do 75Hz ... with the TH2G resolutions available.
so its not that much use in europe-


also my performance testing has shown some restrictions with content sizes and overall graphics throughput.

30Hz needs more ooooomph, more frames per second need to be rendered.


Work here :

Display:
Resolution: 2400 x 600 @ 60 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported
Display:
Resolution: 2400 x 600 @ 60 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported

Software:

System Software Overview:

System Version: Mac OS X 10.5.5 (9F33)
Kernel Version: Darwin 9.5.0
Boot Volume: Cat Os
Boot Mode: Normal
Computer Name: Catalyst01
User Name: Catalyst 01 (catalyst01)
Time since boot: 15 minutes

emilianomorgia
23-09-2008, 05:55 PM
it doesnt seem to work at 1024x768 -



Never had that in this sys config

samsc
23-09-2008, 06:02 PM
Never had that in this sys config


what do you mean?

emilianomorgia
23-09-2008, 06:10 PM
what do you mean?

Some one said he can get 3x 1024x768 out of the Xt1900 , with my system I never had that working

the systems listed before it never run 6 x 1024x768

SourceChild
23-09-2008, 08:38 PM
Richard brings up a good point. Don't follow my bad example of hacking the OS. Not even I get reliable results.

For TH2G and DH2G there is a fundamental stopping point.
Don't try to run more than 4 outputs with Catalyst.
Either use a single TH2G and a single second output or use 2 DH2G for 4 outputs.

Mr_P
23-09-2008, 11:11 PM
For TH2G and DH2G there is a fundamental stopping point.
Don't try to run more than 4 outputs with Catalyst.
Either use a single TH2G and a single second output or use 2 DH2G for 4 outputs.

Yes theres a stopping point - for 1024x768 'Don't try to run more than 4 outputs with Catalyst' - true

Think we coud go round in circles here -

Theres no hard and fast rule. - except: test what you want to do before you need to do it!

I've had 6 x 800x600 running fine 1st go on an X1900XT in a 2007 MacPro running tiger. with 2 x TH2G

Also had 4 x 1024x768 from 2 x DH2G on the same spec...

TEST , try, test and make sure you can repeat it....

Simon

samsc
24-09-2008, 07:03 AM
TEST , try, test and make sure you can repeat it....

Simon

using TH2G pushes towards or over what the graphics card can support.
Using Dual TH2G pushes even closer-

the restrictions are not from my software -

they are from the graphics card and whatever design decisions have been made to support certain resolutions.

These limits are not likely fixed but can change up or down with each revision of apple software or drivers, or change in graphics card.

Matrox also changed the resolutions they support between analogue and digital editions.

---

The point at which this stops working well enough is dependant on usage.

I have noticed different performance from graphics card with different content and image sizes, when using triple heads.
x2600 for example dont seem to like larger images or triple heads.

but there are no rules that can be relied upon.

RedLightning
27-09-2008, 06:11 PM
along the lines of TH2G is it possible to add more resolutions to mirror the capacities of the TH2G?

I just did a permanent club installation with 2-servers each with a TH2G the native resolution of the projectors were 1024x720 and the install/projector placement (36 projectors in groups of three...) was based around this size of image...

samsc
27-09-2008, 07:27 PM
along the lines of TH2G is it possible to add more resolutions to mirror the capacities of the TH2G?

I just did a permanent club installation with 2-servers each with a TH2G the native resolution of the projectors were 1024x720 and the install/projector placement (36 projectors in groups of three...) was based around this size of image...

you mean mix sizes in catalyst?

RedLightning
30-09-2008, 12:34 AM
yes.

emilianomorgia
15-10-2008, 10:31 PM
6 x 1280x1024

Hardware Overview:
Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro3,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per processor): 12 MB
Memory: 6 GB
Bus Speed: 1.6 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MP31.006C.B05
SMC Version: 1.25f4
Serial Number:


Graphics/Displays:
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT:
Chipset Model: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Type: Display
Bus: PCIe
Slot: Slot-1
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 512 MB
Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x0602
Revision ID: 0x00a2
ROM Revision: 3233
Displays:
Display:
Resolution: 3072 x 768 @ 75 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported
Display:
Resolution: 3072 x 768 @ 60 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported

samsc
16-10-2008, 11:45 AM
yes.

im not sure what mix sizes the triple heads support-

the menu to hold these values is already unwieldy really

samsc
16-10-2008, 11:46 AM
one of these displays is at 60hz, the other at 75Hz - and this is at 1024x768x 3
this causes problems-

and total confusion -


6 x 1280x1024

Hardware Overview:
Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro3,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per processor): 12 MB
Memory: 6 GB
Bus Speed: 1.6 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MP31.006C.B05
SMC Version: 1.25f4
Serial Number:


Graphics/Displays:
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT:
Chipset Model: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Type: Display
Bus: PCIe
Slot: Slot-1
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 512 MB
Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x0602
Revision ID: 0x00a2
ROM Revision: 3233
Displays:
Display:
Resolution: 3072 x 768 @ 75 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported
Display:
Resolution: 3072 x 768 @ 60 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported

emilianomorgia
16-10-2008, 01:26 PM
one of these displays is at 60hz, the other at 75Hz - and this is at 1024x768x 3
this causes problems-

and total confusion -


Wait that was the setup I was using , But that machine allow to use 6 x 1280x1024

samsc
16-10-2008, 01:58 PM
Wait that was the setup I was using , But that machine allow to use 6 x 1280x1024

your information here isnt showing this.

emilianomorgia
16-10-2008, 03:30 PM
ok but it does

samsc
16-10-2008, 04:09 PM
ok but it does

did you play any movies?

emilianomorgia
16-10-2008, 10:34 PM
did you play any movies?

yes of course , at least 4 768x1024 Animation .

samsc
16-10-2008, 10:47 PM
yes of course , at least 4 768x1024 Animation .

i know these things work as several shows have done this, keane did this 2 years ago

it doesnt work consistently across machines

you cant tell someone it will work unless they test it,
and the performance is also not constant.

emilianomorgia
16-10-2008, 11:13 PM
on by the way the content was made at 768x1024 so it was useless to work @ 1280x1024 so I've switch back as you saw on the list.

And even on 1024 I had frame dropping ( hard one like 15fps )


Personally I wish to get down to 800x600 but the Graphic Designer prefer to use 1024 and animation even at 15fps ...

samsc
17-10-2008, 01:23 PM
on by the way the content was made at 768x1024 so it was useless to work @ 1280x1024 so I've switch back as you saw on the list.

And even on 1024 I had frame dropping ( hard one like 15fps )


Personally I wish to get down to 800x600 but the Graphic Designer prefer to use 1024 and animation even at 15fps ...

which codec are you using?
Animation codec?

How many layers at once?

What discs? ssd?

---

you have one output at 60Hz and one at 75Hz - this is not good - this can lead to poor performance.
also 6 outputs is really a little too much- and not recommended- even if you can make it happen.

emilianomorgia
17-10-2008, 02:01 PM
which codec are you using?
Animation codec?

Yes ( i did not want to use it but the Graphic Designer want it )


How many layers at once?

4 ( they goes down to 15fps )


What discs? ssd?

MTRON MSP-SATA7035:
Capacity: 59.61 GB
Model: MTRON MSP-SATA7035
Revision: 0.18R1
Serial Number: 0HA1170400310
Native Command Queuing: No
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk1
Bay Name: "Bay 2"
Mac OS 9 Drivers: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified


---


you have one output at 60Hz and one at 75Hz - this is not good - this can lead to poor performance.

Wait ! again that it's the snap shoot I take but it's not what I've used during the show .



also 6 outputs is really a little too much- and not recommended- even if you can make it happen.


I know this, read back my post I always suggest 2 Dual Head 2 go.

I wasn't making this setup I went there and I found it like that. Was not my job to set it back in the right way.

But it's true that if you need 6 different outputs to run few movies it useful to know that the listed hardware does 6 output at 1280x1024 .

B4 USING IT CHECK IT YOUR SELF

samsc
17-10-2008, 02:27 PM
Yes ( i did not want to use it but the Graphic Designer want it )



4 movies at 1024x768?

please email me pdf profile of show so we can check the data rate of these files. or give me file size and movie length.
animation can be close to uncompressed. so can overload a single sata channel data rate.

with animation movies the game is different. the data rate can be high, and very peaky, and somtimes cpu load is also peaky.

emilianomorgia
17-10-2008, 02:42 PM
one movie was 295 Kbit/s

samsc
17-10-2008, 04:37 PM
one movie was 295 Kbit/s

the problem is you had apple remote desktop on all the time-

running remote desktop with 6 triple head outputs at 6144 x 768 pixels!!!! kills the playback performance.

it kills playback stability even at lower resolutions.
nothing to do with movies.

emilianomorgia
18-10-2008, 10:12 AM
the problem is you had apple remote desktop on all the time-

running remote desktop with 6 triple head outputs at 6144 x 768 pixels!!!! kills the playback performance.

it kills playback stability even at lower resolutions.
nothing to do with movies.

yeah that may be kill performances but this is was not the case .

4 Animations 768x1024 was requesting 1200 Kbit/s !!!!

I see that as problem .

Indeed ARD should be turn off during showtime ( if your set up allow you to do so )

samsc
18-10-2008, 01:00 PM
yeah that may be kill performances but this is was not the case .

4 Animations 768x1024 was requesting 1200 Kbit/s !!!!

I see that as problem .


what do you mean 1200KBit/s ? that is not very much - are you meaning a low or a high number?
can you get hold of the files?




Indeed ARD should be turn off during showtime ( if your set up allow you to do so )


you have to turn off ARD or it will simply not work- you have 2 triple heads and ARD previewing 6x1024x768 screen - this just does not work well enough.
End of story - doesnt matter about whether your setup will allow it -

you want to play back video properly?- or you want to use ARD? - its a simple choice.
ARD kills things across the board -whether you are playing back movies or doing nothing.

emilianomorgia
18-10-2008, 01:09 PM
Can you pls consider to add a command in the Web server to turn ARD on / off ?

samsc
18-10-2008, 05:39 PM
Can you pls consider to add a command in the Web server to turn ARD on / off ?

not sure what you mean?

ARD has 2 components - it has a client- called the vnc server which runs on the computer to watch - and a remote viewer application that in this case is called Apple remote desktop ( ARD )-

When ARD is not running on the remote computer - it doesnt do anything on the computer being watched- it has no impact on performance-

Performance is only impacted when the computer is being observed - if you arent observing the screens nothing bad happens-

emilianomorgia
18-10-2008, 05:53 PM
oh well in this case I had no problems , since I was not using it during showtime .

the remote management was on but I was not obverse the Remote MacPro while I was programming . I've used only to do the keystone

samsc
18-10-2008, 11:53 PM
oh well in this case I had no problems , since I was not using it during showtime .

the remote management was on but I was not obverse the Remote MacPro while I was programming . I've used only to do the keystone

back to the movies-
what was the data rate?

do you still have these files?can you get them?