cat5 VGA bauln

[ryanww]

Hey,

I have a job coming up where I need to extend a VGA signal about 500'. I have been searching online and just haven't found exactly what I want. I am looking for one that will do the highest possible resolution at the greatest distance. Mostly for the future. This job only is probably going to run at 1024x768 or 1280x1024 at most but high definition in the future is a possibility. I am going to be making cat5 snakes that will be 250' each on reels so it has to be able to run at 500' or 750'. I am sure someone on here knows of a high quality one. I saw one that Media solutions had and I didn't write it down and can't remember what it is.. but it was able to do 1024x768 at 1500' which is about what I am looking for.

Thanks,

Ryan

[Mr_P]

I use TV-One extenders - but on cat6 cable - seems to work better than some cheap cat5. specs: http://www.tvone.co.uk/cat5transpage.shtml
limit is about 300m at 1280x1024.

You wont find an HD VGA extender that works reliably over about 50m - use fibre, its not too expensive if you shop around. Think logical boxes are fairly reasonable (DVI and VGA) - theres loads out there..... I;ve just done a whole lot of research and still keep finding more....

Incidentally - The Lindy DVI cat 5 extender works great up to 1600x1200@60Hz and is quite cheap too. Theres an HDMI one on its way in about 6 months I've been told. Couldnt believe the price of this one either: http://videogame.brando.com.hk/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00506

S

[Woodj32177]

I would suggest Magenta Research stuff,
I have used their multiview line on several shows.
I will never go back to using normal video cable for anything longer than 50'
- 1920 x 1200 resolution at 2000 ft.(610m)
- 1600 x 1200 resolution at 1500 ft.(457m)
- 2048 x 1536 resolution at 1000 ft. (305m)
http://www.magenta-research.com/overview.htm

I would suggest this transmitter,
http://www.magenta-research.com/brochures/UTx_sheet.pdf

and for the reciever,
http://www.magenta-research.com/brochures/AK1000_AK1500.pdf

That will easily get you the distance and resolution you need.

Let me know if you have any questions.
Joshua Wood

[ryanww]

Those are the ones I was looking for! I submitted an "order" for a quote from them so hopefully they will get back to me tomorrow. Its probably easiest to go through them right?

Last night I found Gefen's DVI FM extender and was looking into that, but getting fiber for a 1k budget will be hard. Plus I can just use the Cat5 cable for other projects. The adapter kind of looked cheap too.

Thanks!!

[IanH]

I would look at a fiber extender and DVI rather than VGA..

a pair of these http://www.thinklogical.com/product.asp?ID=46

and some ST fiber...

Ian H

[Spam Butterfly]

Thinklogical boxes - possibly the greatest source of ire in our warehouse. Work fine in the warehouse. Don't work on site.

Hugh

[Mr_P]

DVI is not always the answer!!!...

[Gian]

specially because in various projectors you loose the color control.

[ryanww]

yea I think for this particular project VGA is easier because the source is most likely a 1604 going to just a normal projector. In the future I would like to get DVI ones but its just going to cost too much for the budget I have. I am just going to get a set of the Magenta research multiview boxes. they are decently priced and seem to travel the farthest with actual distance ratings opposed to estimated ratings. Will getting shielded cat cable offer better noise rejection or is it really just a toss up?

[jasonrudolph]

my guess would be shielded is better than non shielded. You mentioned cat6 instead of cat5 earlier, this probably wont matter, as these systems dont actually use ethernet, they are just using the cabling to get the signal from place to place, however the shielded cable will help with noise reduction over the run most likely.

[SourceChild]

my guess would be shielded is better than non shielded. You mentioned cat6 instead of cat5 earlier, this probably wont matter, as these systems dont actually use ethernet, they are just using the cabling to get the signal from place to place, however the shielded cable will help with noise reduction over the run most likely.

The only problem with shielded cable is that it acts more like a grounding shield than an RF shield. This is great if you need to avoid voltage differentials between points but for this scenario it doesn't apply. In fact, if you use shielded cable you are more likely to create a ground loop which will introduce or attract more noise than it eliminates.

As for Cat6 vs. Cat5.... Technically the KVM or Video over ethernet solutions do not use TCP/IP. They use a different differential communication all together which is not even related to standard ethernet packets. In any case. The specific choice is Cat5e (look for the 'e') because Cat5e has a higher rating than regular Cat5 and is less subject to noise and has a greater longevity for distance.

I only know this because I happen to be a lighting/video guy who also has CCIE certifications.

[SourceChild]

yea I think for this particular project VGA is easier because the source is most likely a 1604 going to just a normal projector. In the future I would like to get DVI ones but its just going to cost too much for the budget I have. I am just going to get a set of the Magenta research multiview boxes. they are decently priced and seem to travel the farthest with actual distance ratings opposed to estimated ratings. Will getting shielded cat cable offer better noise rejection or is it really just a toss up?

Honestly Ryan,

I know Simon and Gian talk about DVI not always being the best and to a degree they are right. However, I use the thinklogical boxes that Hugh recomends and they have proven to be the best. Also, fibre is cheap enough to justify it.

I personally recommend thinklogical boxes for DVI with Fibre. But agree with comments now and in the past I have heard from Simon.

[Mr_P]

I own a couple of pairs of think logical boxes - and I've had no problems with them either...

[ryanww]

I am looking into those thinklogical boxes. Do you have a rough price on what the transmitter and receiver pair would be? I contacted them but who knows how long they will take to get back to me. Also, do you have a good source of fiber? I would like to get some tactical 2 or 4 pair. When I google search, it just comes up with military contracting fiber manufactures.

Thanks,
Ryan

[Woodj32177]

I know I am starting to sound like a magenta research dealer, but have you looked at their dvi over ethernet/fiber?
http://www.magenta-research.com/downloads/Infinea_dvi.pdf
I just really like the magenta stuff, it has always been bulletproof for me.


Joshua Wood

[Peter]

What's the difference between using cat5 or fibre?

[SourceChild]

What's the difference between using cat5 or fibre?

Fibre is cheap enough now where it's cost competitive with Cat5. Fibre is smaller than Cat5 and can carry a signal much further without interference.

Fibre is not as flexible but where sharp bends in fibre will break it, sharp bends in Cat5 will create a distortion in the twist ratio causing tremendous signal loss.

There are some boxes that will take power over ethernet so they don't require a power supply on the receiver side. (Sometimes nice not to need an extra power supply).

Both have their applications. Honestly, I would give the following recommendations...

If you're a video company that has already invested thousands into RGB-HV then continue to use RGB-HV. No need to buy new stuff when the old works unless your cable bridge real-estate is low and you need a single line solution for each feed. Unless you need to run more than 75 meters, RGB-HV will usually work just fine.

If you're running an assortment of artnet solutions already chances are you have Cat5 with Ethercons. Since you've already invested in this, follow trend. Continue using Cat5 for your VoE solutions.

If quality is absolutely important, you're innovative and proactive to adopt new methods, consider fibre and a lucrative solution for doing long runs and runs where you'll have large bundles of signal lines.

Of course the main reason to used Cat5 and Fibre is if your desire is to transport DVI. This is something you will most likely do if driving LED walls as most LED interfaces use DVI as their "best" (sometimes only) input.

Oh and the big decision maker... If you are in a situation where the power is profoundly different from a source to a destination then Cat5 is okay but fibre is the best choice overall. With fibre there is no ground because it's all with light. Cat5 technically is ground free because you're using a differential pair. However anytime you connect copper between two distant sources, you always run the risk of having a noise, ground loop, or voltage variance between devices.

For those of you who are built on top of an inventory of one kind of system I suggest sticking to that system. For those of you starting out, create a solid convention and stick to it. Of course allow for a convention that tends to be an universal convention across companies if you're primary business will be cross renting to other production companies that might be using a universal standard (of their own, lol).

[ryanww]

I just figured I would give you an update on what I am going to end up doing for this project.

Because the nature of the video (imag with some powerpoint and little movement) I decided that buying all the magenta research stuff was just not going to be too useful for me. Someone gave me an excellent idea. The slingbox. It sounds hoakey.. especially when you look at the $150 price tag. But it streams 640x480 over lan at near 6mbps and it looks great. When you start having a full frame image with constant movement then it sometimes is not really smooth.. but with a small amount of movement it works wonders. I figured it would be a great recommendation for cost effective solutions for budget minded projects.

Now I have 2 Magenta research transmitters that I purchased and am not going to use. I purchased them used but they were never used.. and didn't come with a power supply. If anyone is interested in them let me know.. I have no use anymore. They are in perfect condition though.